AS Seen On

By: Stephan Spencer


Dr. Cathleen King
“When we realize our specific purpose, a morphogenic field emerges to unite our energies and transcend the dimensions of reality.”
Dr. Cathleen King

“Mind over matter” may sound trite or even offensive to someone suffering from chronic illness or trauma, but my guest today has unlocked the potential for self-healing for herself and thousands of others in her program by transcending limiting beliefs.

Joining us on today’s show is Dr. Cathleen King, known to her patients simply as Dr. Cat. She’s a physical therapist and neuroscience-based mind-body practitioner focused on chronic illness and trauma healing. She is the founder of Primal Trust, a rapidly growing platform helping people around the world unlock self-healing through a holistic approach.

In this powerful discussion, Dr. Cat and I explore the mind-body connection and how we can retrain our brains and nervous systems to alleviate symptoms of chronic illnesses. She opens up and shares her own healing journey and how it led her to develop Primal Trust programming, combining brain retraining, vagus nerve toning, somatics, and trauma-informed techniques.

Whether you or someone you know is battling Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, food sensitivities, or simply feeling overwhelmed by life, Dr. Cat provides insights into shifting out of fight, flight, or freeze and into empowerment. This episode offers inspiration and practical tools to transcend suffering and reconnect with our innate capacity for self-healing. So, without any further ado, on with the show!

In this Episode

  • [05:11]Dr. Cathleen King shares her healing journey from chronic illness and trauma and how she helps others do the same through her platform Primal Trust.
  • [10:54]Dr. Cathleen explains the causes of the dysregulated nervous system and suggests how to identify and address the underlying factors to manage illnesses.
  • [14:57]Stephan and Dr. Cathleen talk about toxic mold exposure and its effects on the nervous system, with Dr. Cath explaining how brain associations influence allergies.
  • [21:04]Dr. Cathleen discusses neuroplasticity, the brain’s ability to rewire itself, and some brain retraining techniques.
  • [25:40]Dr. Cathleen emphasizes the vagus nerve’s importance in regulating the autonomic nervous system, digestion, and emotional well-being.
  • [27:08]Dr. Cathleen describes trauma processing with the help of Somatic Experiencing.
  • [32:33]Dr. Cathleen tackles emotional responses and overcoming freeze mode, emphasizing how amygdala hijack occurs.
  • [41:27]Dr. Cathleen discusses morphogenic fields, attunements, and the collective intention of conscious beings.

Jump to Links and Resources

Dr. Cat, it’s so great to have you on the show. 

Thank you. I’m so glad to be here. 

First of all, I think it’s a fun story to share how we met, and then you got confirmation synchronicities that were out of the ordinary, I’ll just say. Do you want to share your story about that?

Sure. I launched a business a couple of years ago. I have a great mentor named Ivan Pollak. I kept asking him about website development and SEO; he always said, “You’re not ready.” Eventually, this fall, he said, “All right, you’re ready. Here’s the guy- it’s Stephan Spencer.”

When we met, this whole world of SEO and business was not quite my thing; I was definitely very nervous. I didn’t want to be turned into a salesperson type of business, so I was a little on guard to meet you, to be honest. But our first conversation was so quantum, mind-blowing, serendipitous, out of this world, and coincidental. That’s the best way I can describe it. I was like, “Okay. This is the man I’m supposed to work with because he is so like-minded.” There were just so many synchronicities.

The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

I was literally reading The Alchemist, and you’re like, “There’s this book called The Alchemist. There’s this line—” The book was sitting right on my table. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I love that.” For me, I needed some witness that starting to go into this business world and in sales, frankly, was going to stay in alignment with my purity that I was trying not to become just some money-hungry business company. Just a lot of quantum acknowledgment and angelic help helped me see that’s not who Stephan is. He’s mission-driven, and he’s a match. 

I don’t normally talk about timelines on a sales call, but I was just guided to talk to you about jumping timelines and Tom Kenyon, and you like Tom Kenyon.

I love Tom.

Not many people know who Tom Kenyon is, so that was another fun synchronicity. Then we started working together, and out of the blue, I was like, “You need to do a full Court of Atonement on this person.” I was expecting you to say a full court of what, and of course, you were like, “I was just…” Like you’re going to share what happened.

Yeah, I know what it was, and that morning, I was explaining it to someone else, thinking I needed to do this in this situation in my business. Then you gave that second confirmation.

I’d never thought of employing that technique with business challenges. It just really opened up a world. It’s just been multidimensional, and amazing to know you.

Thank you. I feel the same. Now, let’s go to the depths of despair to talk about your healing journey, origin story, and how this was the impetus for you starting Primal Trust.

Well, I was one of those canary in the coal mines that started getting all sorts of weird illnesses 20 years ago. I was the only one I knew with gluten intolerance, the digestive stuff, and then the chemical sensitivity. I just had all these diagnoses start to pile up—parasites, viruses, Lyme disease, mold toxicity, and chronic PTSD

I felt like I didn’t belong on this planet, “What is wrong with me? I must be cursed. Why was my body just falling apart, and everyone else my age—I was in my 20s—was doing fine.” I was sensitive to EMFs, and people were like, “What’s an EMF?” I’m like, “The thing out of the computer makes me feel like this.” I was just that person and on a long journey of healing.

I had a background in mind-body healing as a physical therapist, but I didn’t know how to apply it to what I was going through. No doctor knew what to do with me. I went all over the place trying to see the experts.

Eventually, I realized that there was this missing piece, which is our ability to self-regulate our own biology. That’s the root of all of the health issues I had and all of the health issues that a lot of us have. It comes down to our nervous system capacity. 

Brain retraining uses a variety of practices to target the limbic system of the brain. The limbic system is our emotional center that informs our fear and fight-or-flight responses. Share on X

Once I applied that principle to my body, my healing started to skyrocket. I was like, “Oh my gosh, all of us highly sensitive empaths, this is what we need.” We need nervous system regulation because we are taking in all of the toxicity of the world. We feel it when our bodies try to adapt to all of this. 

A lot of us are getting diagnosed with chronic illness when it’s just a very sensitive nervous system. I had a lot of trauma growing up in my childhood, and frankly, the world as it is is just really intense for people, so I created a program based on my own experience. 

Amazing. How long has that program, the Primal Trust, been in place?

The root of all the health issues many of us have come down to our nervous system capacity.

The official Primal Trust Academy & Community was launched two years ago. I was coaching people for a few years before that, learning and doing a lot of beta testing of the process. We have grown exponentially in the last couple of years. I serve over 60 countries, taking up to 7,000 people through my program. It’s been amazing to have all that suffering and hardship be an actual calling and a mission.

What’s the expression? Forged in the crucible. You became a diamond by being in that high-pressure environment, and now you get to share your gift with the world.

What would be the process for somebody who wants to self-heal? They’re not going to the medical system, or maybe they are already getting very good results, and they want to take control of their healing journey. They want to be the CEO of their health. What’s the process? How do they retrain their nervous system and brain to be parasympathetic and not fight-or-fight all the time?

That is the question of this decade, “How do we make this conscious leap of looking external for our health and for our remedies, lifting out of that fix-it mentality, going to a doctor, giving me a pill, giving me a diagnosis, lifting above it, and looking within, looking at what the elephant in the room is inside of you? What’s been going on for some time that I’m not dealing with? What is the state of the stress within my system?” 

“What are my relationships like? What is my lifestyle like? How am I rushing to bed? Have I not even taken one ounce of time to feel what’s in here, whether it’s resentment, anger, grief, or shame? I just go to bed, get up, and I’m so busy the next day?”

Our survival mode hijacks our amygdala and controls our consciousness. Our prefrontal cortex temporarily takes a backseat, but we should embrace the ride. Share on X

It’s about looking at your life differently. Instead of rushing to the doctor to figure it out, drop in. “How am I living?” And typically, if you’ve got chronic symptoms. Usually, it starts with anxiety, insomnia, and digestive issues. That’s the first breakdown, slowing down. We must be in a rest and digest state to sleep, digest our food, and detoxify our organs properly. 

How much of your day are you spending messaging, responding, running around, and distracting versus being with yourself, noticing the trees, taking a walk without listening to something, and just being present, looking your spouse in the eye and having an actual conversation with them or with your children, for that matter? 

All of that is regulating. If you’re not doing that, you’re likely dysregulated, and you’ll start breaking down. That’s usually how it starts: sympathetic overdrive, which is fight-or-flight overdrive, and not feeling well. That’s what I’d say. 

How does that relate to somebody who is dealing with chronic fatigue, Lyme disease, or some other illness that may not even have been diagnosed properly or diagnosed at all for them?

Pushing past your limits and saying yes when you mean no is the setup for chronic fatigue, Lyme disease, mold toxicity, and all of these syndromes.

If you look at your history, what I’m describing right now about pushing past your limits, saying yes when you mean no, is the setup for chronic fatigue, Lyme disease, mold toxicity, and all of these syndromes. It usually starts with a lifestyle where your nervous system is at its max.

Then there’s usually some type of insult. It might be a chemical insult. You move into a moldy house. Maybe you get a virus or get bit by a tick or whatever pathogen might enter your body. Or a divorce or a loss of a job. Some insult breaks the straw, the straw that broke the camel’s back. 

What’s happened is that you’ve already set up a nervous system that’s dysregulated the chronic stress response. Now, you have some type of overload in the body that can’t detoxify, appropriately fight that infection, or get a foothold on the energy it needs.

Focusing on Lyme, mold, etc., is not the root cause. Many people have tested positive for Lyme disease, mold toxicity, etc., and they don’t have symptoms because their bodies are handling it. Their bodies are not in that chronic stress state. 

We teach people to say, “Okay, you might have these diagnoses, but let’s get to the root, to a nervous system stuck in the stress response.” It’s stuck in something called cell danger response, which means on a cellular level, all of your energy is getting used to signal danger. It’s getting used to telling the cell wall to harden and not detoxify. That hardening of the cell wall also keeps nutrients from coming inside the cell. 

It also causes the immune system to be out of balance, sometimes over-reactive in some ways and under-reactive in others. That cell danger response is what we are targeting with the method I teach, which is nervous system regulation, getting signaling to say, “We’re okay. We’re out of the war. We’re taking care of ourselves now. We are leading a more balanced lifestyle. We are using practices to target our vagus nerve, our brain, and things like that to signal safety again down to the cellular level.” That starts to shift the chronic symptoms.

What are some examples of results your community members have obtained from employing your techniques? 

The cool thing is that our brain and nervous system are changeable.

The cool thing is it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been sick. Many people think, “I’ve been sick for 10, 20, 30, or 40 years. This won’t work.” No, your nervous system has been dysregulated for 10, 20, 30, or 40 years. 

The cool thing is that our brain and nervous system are changeable. I’m seeing people in their 60s-70s healing from a lifetime of stuff, which is amazing. We’re seeing very specific conditions turn around quite rapidly.

I just had a woman I interviewed a couple of weeks ago. She was going to have to have 80% of her colon taken out because she had massive digestive issues autoimmune issues, and it was just terrible. Her doctor said, “Well, there’s one more thing. It’s called Primal Trust. It’s a program to regulate your nervous system. Let’s see.”

Four months later, she’s completely healed, off all of her medication, no need for surgery. Lyme disease, left and right, people’s symptoms are just falling away. They haven’t been taking medication for the infection. They’ve been regulating their nervous system and now have their energy back. Some no longer test positive for Lyme, like their immune system is going after it. 

People’s ability to detoxify starts to turn on, and they’re able to live around mold or chemicals when they think, “Oh, for the rest of my life, I have to avoid this.” No, the nervous system knows how to get rid of these things, and they can have improved tolerance to them. 

It’s been remarkable to see the myriad of different diagnoses start to change simply by working on what we consider a root cause: the nervous system in distress. 

Avoid freezing in trauma by safely moving your body and mind forward.

I was just interviewing Scott Harrison, the founder of Charity Water, who was sharing his story of his mother’s exposure to toxic mold. It put her into that stress response, the cell danger response—I’m sure all the different things at a cellular level that you’re talking about, the cell membrane hardening and all that happened—she became so sensitive to smells and to just regular things.

She’d get sick just by smelling the print in a book. Her son, Scott, would have to bake the books she wanted to read in the oven. She had to live in her bathroom and put aluminum foil on the surfaces so that nothing would react with her skin and cause all sorts of horrible allergic responses.

She had to live in that bathroom for many years, and it was never solved. It’s an incredible story, and what a difference something like Primal Trust could have made for her. She’s passed now, but these things seem incurable or impossible to solve—there’s a lot of innovation happening now, like what you’re up to—that makes seemingly impossible stuff possible.

Miracles happen when you learn how to harness that capacity to think and feel differently.

There are so many stories like that. I was also somebody who couldn’t read books for the same reason. So many people live in a tiny prison, and you think, “What in the heck is happening?” They’re becoming allergic to the world, which is what happened. The nervous system is so over-responsive to internal and external threats that everything gets identified as a threat. 

The cool thing is that there’s a part of our brain called our limbic system, our amygdala, that is this associating-making machine. Just as it’s neuroplastic and can become allergic to everything, it can also rewire and become unallergic to everything. 

I see people getting all their food back and can be in different environments. We think we can retrain our brain and nervous system to respond, even though I’ve been to all of these doctors. Yes, because that is the paradigm shift I’m speaking of, this power within our brain and nervous system, using our consciousness to make new associations. Our body is a servant to our mind, to our consciousness. Miracles happen when you learn how to harness that capacity to think and feel differently.

I love the quote I learned while studying Kabbalah that a miracle isn’t the impossible becoming possible but the removal of the illusionary veils that hide the fact that everything is a blessing. Everything is happening perfectly as it’s meant to for your highest good.

What’s amazing is that in all the stories and testimonial videos I do of people who have healed, everyone says they are grateful they got sick. They see the blessing. The illusion was revealed, and that’s exactly it.

Dozens of new practitioners have been referring to our program because their patients are getting results.

There’s some way that they awakened as a person that would not have happened if they hadn’t learned how to consciously self-regulate their biology, and they become grateful for it.

I presume that you, too, are grateful for all the challenges you went through. 

It gives meaning to the very difficult way that I grew up and an understanding of why I went through what I went through. I’m here to help connect dots for people now, and I couldn’t connect them if I hadn’t seen them myself and gone through it.

I recently interviewed Dr. Steven Gundry, and he was talking about how he went from the traditional medical system. He was a real innovator and invented some technologies still in use today for heart patients.

What struck me was how people kept showing up with the same symptomatology. If they had just changed their diets, they would have had less symptomology or none. He went to the root cause and started writing books about nutrition, changing your diet, improving your immune system, etc. He’s achieved so much for people.

It just got me thinking about him when you talked about what this lady’s doctor recommended. We’ve run out of options. “Why don’t you try Primal Trust before we go through with removing 80% of your colon?” 

I would love for the medical establishment to be that aware, generally. Not just one individual doctor like that, but brain retraining and regulating your nervous system can solve this problem.

When you deal with your trauma, you courageously embark on the path of healing. However, it’s vital that you have the support, resources, and ability to self-regulate before you confront past trauma.

I think I probably saw at least 20 specialists in those years when I was looking, and not one told me to do nervous system work to help with these symptoms. I just think that they weren’t trained. That’s what I mean. 

This is a shift in consciousness. We’re creating a new paradigm in wellness right now, including diet, watching our toxic load, and all of the things we’re doing nowadays. It’ll catch on. 

Even in the last year, dozens of new practitioners have been referring to our program because their patients are getting results. “I don’t know what you’re doing, but it’s working.” So it’s just the beginning.

I’m excited about what’s in store for you and your community, for all the people you’re going to help.

Neuroplasticity is the ability to wire different neurons together and make new associations.

Can you differentiate for our listener, nervous system regulation, brain retraining, and general neuroplasticity?

Let’s just start with neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity is the ability to wire different neurons together and make new associations. Our brain is a rehearsal machine. It’s just rehearsing what it’s learned, making associations, like, “Oh, I got bit by a dog at two.” The association is dog is bad, and then, “I’m scared for the rest of my life.” That’s just because of a memory and an association. 

The cool thing is that you can change associations in the brain. You can rewire and, through neuroplastic practices, teach your brain and body to respond differently, including to allergies. Food allergies will be a thing of the past because we know we can rewire our body’s response to different foods. There are a lot of therapies out there that do that. That’s neuroplasticity. It’s just creating a new association between the brain and the body. 

Brain retraining uses different practices to target the limbic system of the brain, which is the emotional center of the brain, where there are structures like the amygdala, which is our fear center, our fight-or-flight center, that triggers fear. There’s the hippocampus. It’s our memory center. Our hypothalamus makes all sorts of chemicals to help run our body. 

If you can target the limbic system with practices, you can easily rewire the brain because the brain rewires most specifically with emotion, and the limbic system is the emotional center. 

If you were going to rewire a food allergy, you might hold that food you’re allergic to, maybe even taste it, and think of the most positive, beautiful memory you can. The brain starts producing safety, connection, and joy chemicals while associating with that food. Then, it wires a new perception, “This food is associated with safety and joy.” 

Food allergies will be a thing of the past because we know we can rewire our body’s response to different foods. There are a lot of therapies out there that do that.

Over time, the immune system no longer targets it as a threat. It’s a repetition-based method. It has to be repetitive and ideally emotionally charged. That’s how you rewire the brain. 

We use different brain retraining techniques. One is memory activation, which involves memory repatterning. You bring up memories, then bring up positive memories, shifting your perception of the past. 

We also do different future rehearsal and mental rehearsal exercises to teach the brain how to plan for an event, like maybe you’re going to speak in front of people. You can retrain the brain to be excited about that, to be calm if you’re afraid, and it’s just the rehearsal that you do that. 

Brain retraining was one of the first methods that I took seriously when I was recovering from Lyme disease and chronic fatigue. It was powerful. It shifted my symptoms very quickly. I wasn’t taking medicine or supplements. I didn’t have any money at that time to do anything.

The next piece is nervous system regulation. You have your brain and your autonomic nervous system, which runs through your whole body. Your nervous system is primarily run by a nerve called your vagus nerve. It’s the big daddy. The vagus nerve runs through all the organs of our body, through our heart, up into our face. It’s the nerve that helps to kick on that parasympathetic rest and digest state. If you want to heal, targeting the vagus nerve is something you want to do.

We’re also trying to create nervous system regulation in the body. Your belly is soft, you’re digesting, you’re breathing nicely. You’re able to feel present. You’re not dissociated. You can handle the feelings and emotions that might come up and just stay with them and breathe without your heart rate going through the roof.

All of that is done through different types of vagus nerve tools and other nervous system tools, often called somatic processing, somatic experiencing, and somatic presencing. Somatic simply means body-based focus. 

We target the brain, the body, the vagus nerve, and the somatic system because if they communicate together, you’re getting a holistic approach to the body. That would be my explanation in a nutshell. 

And the vagus nerve versus other nerves because I’m sure we have plenty of nerves in our body. Why is the vagus nerve talked about so much compared to other nerves?

Because it’s the nerve that primarily regulates your autonomic nervous system, now, we’ve got skeletal nerves, pain nerves, and other types of nerves that relay information, but the vagus nerve is called the wandering nerve. It’s the big one that runs through all of the organs, all through the body. 

It directly connects the gut to the heart to the brain. It talks to your amygdala, gives information to the brain, and relays information back into the body. If you’re having digestive issues, you’ll want to target your vagus nerve. In fact, it can be way more potent than medication if I dare say that publicly. But it’s true. 

The vagus nerve is also known as the wandering nerve; it runs through all of the organs of the body.

Vagus nerve exercises: simple breathing exercises can greatly impact your acid reflux, indigestion, and other things because they run your digestive system. It’s simple to target, and you can google it. 

There are many ways to target it, but breathing, humming, singing, and cold showers are a few of the popular ones that tone the vagus nerve. Like going to the gym and making your biceps stronger, you can tone your vagus nerve to become stronger with several simple activities that I just mentioned.

We teach people how to do that. We get them on a vagus nerve toning program and a brain retraining program to strengthen their nervous system’s capacity to handle stress.

Where does somatic experiencing, or SE, fit in? That term means something. If you could define it for our listener, it’s not just body experience. It’s a modality. 

Somatic experiencing was coined by Peter Levine. It’s a practice of becoming present in the body with what’s there emotionally and physically. Also present with the environment. It’s about the present moment and handling what’s coming up rather than distracting. It’s also about presenting the trauma that is stored in our bodies.

Your brilliant brain protects you from the direct impact of trauma. Your brain traps trauma in memory in an attempt to protect your soul, mind, and body. Share on X

He has a great method and modality to help people very carefully incrementally presence that trauma the emotions, and be able to have the nervous system stay in eye contact in difficult conversations, to be able to keep the breath regulated when you’re upset, to be able to slow down and notice, “Wow, I haven’t been processing that thing that upset me earlier today.”

It’s a way of helping you stay regulated in your nervous system trauma processing, and it’s an essential ingredient, in my opinion, in chronic illness recovery.

And trauma processing. I actually had the founder of this program on this podcast several years ago. His name is David Berceli, and it’s TRE—Trauma Releasing Exercises. I was really amazed by the power of it because when I interviewed him, I had no experience with it. He graciously offered to work with me and my wife, Orion, to give us an experience of TRE, which we did sometime later. It was incredible. 

One of the important things about it is that you do have to get back to that place where you were having your amygdala or your nervous system hijacked and feel like you’re going through that again. You bring up that memory of what you’re experiencing. Your body and your brain don’t know that you’re experiencing that in the past; everything is in the now. 

If you do any modality for trauma release, whether it’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) or it’s tapping or whatever, you do need to be in a place where you’re getting triggered. You’re remembering being in that place of trauma so that you can clear it. It’s my understanding, at least. Maybe you could clarify that for our listeners because I’m not an expert in this area.

I think if you’re going to do trauma release exercises, trauma processing exercises, it’s important to have some type of nervous system regulation or brain retraining toolkit in place because when you start opening up Pandora’s box of what’s in there if you’re not supported, if you’re not resourced, if you don’t know how to self-regulate in a basic level, it can be re-traumatizing. 

That was the case for me. I did a lot of trauma work in those years. I was sick, and it made me worse. I didn’t know how to make new associations. I didn’t know how to leave the therapist’s office and have tools for vagus nerve calming and brain retraining. 

One of the things we teach is the somatic peace later. We start with vagus nerve toning, brain retraining, and trauma processing. I want to clarify that as my opinion first. 

If you want to heal, targeting the vagus nerve is something you want to do.

But what you’re doing with trauma processing, trauma is, at one point, your consciousness got so flooded with an emotional event it couldn’t make sense of it. The brain, in its brilliance, protects you from what locks it away in a memory structure in the brain and often in the body. You don’t have to feel it. You don’t have to process what you can’t understand. 

When we start doing trauma processing, EMDR, somatic experiencing, parts work, whatever, it’s like taking that frozen memory, opening up the file, and allowing that energy to flow through the body and be felt. It has to be felt and witnessed to be released without resistance. If you start to resist, the body will close back down again. 

Having tools in place and basic nervous system regulation skills is essential, as is having somebody who can hold space for you and carefully titrate the opening of that memory file to allow little bits of it and then close it back down. A skilled therapist is very important in this case.

What we’re doing is opening it up, allowing that energy to be released, the energy that’s stuck in our cells, it’s stuck in our psyche, allowing it to move, to be felt by an adult who can handle it now, an adult who can feel the feelings, handle the shakes, handle whatever needs to come out, and witness what was not able to be witnessed when the trauma happened. That’s how we heal or process trauma.

What exactly is an amygdala hijack? How does it relate to this situation?

When we are so flooded with emotion, our prefrontal cortex goes offline, and we are just in reaction. That might happen when you’ve had a really busy day, and suddenly, a big stress happens, and you just maybe yell at your spouse or your kids, and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, what just happened?” 

Your amygdala was in reaction mode, was emotionally hot, and your prefrontal cortex was offline because you were in survival mode. An amygdala hijack means that the survival center of our brain is dominating our consciousness at the time. If your prefrontal cortex is offline, you cannot do much about it now but ride that wave.

How does that relate to shock? When somebody is in shock, their brain, the prefrontal has gone offline. If you say something like, “Don’t panic,” all you hear is the word panic, and then they freak out even more. You have to say, “Remain calm.”

I learned that I forget where, but it’s important for EMTs to know, for example. How does amygdala hijack versus shock relate?

Trauma Releasing Exercises by David Berceli

Shock would be the extreme end of the spectrum of an amygdala hijack. It just means that what’s happening in the body or the environment is so much that your prefrontal is offline, and your body has taken over to keep you alive. That reptilian brain and our emotional brain are running the show. It’s keeping your heart pumping and you breathing, and you’re just full-on an emotional fight, flight, or freeze.

That’s all you’re able to do. Sometimes, you’re even non-responsive when you’re in shock. You’re just totally shut down. Your body’s just keeping you alive. That’s just the far end of the spectrum there.

I got it. You said fight, flight, or freeze. Many people have only heard of fight-or-flight, but there’s that third option, which is freeze, and that’s what my brain goes into in a shock or type of overwhelming situation. If I’m in physical danger, I’ll freeze like a deer in headlights, which is not a great way to be. How do you address that? How do you fix that situation?

You’ve got to understand where it comes from. Think of a field mouse in a field and a bird of prey overhead. That field mouse can’t run away from the bird. It’s not going to make it. The bird’s going to see it. It can’t fight the bird, either. 

The field mouse’s only form of protection is freeze. If we feel we’re in a situation where the threat is bigger than us—we can’t run away from it, it’s too much, we can’t fight it, we’re too little—that’s the third option. It’s a combination of totally collapsing and wanting to run away. It’s overwhelming, and it’s too big for us. That’s the freeze response. 

How do you overcome that? How do you get out of freeze, or should that be your go-to? I don’t want to be in a place where I’m getting threatened by some big guy or somebody with a weapon. I need to protect my family, and I’m frozen like a field mouse.

The way out of freeze is always through movement, and it’s through movement that’s safe. Sometimes, you’ve got to analyze the current situation: “Is there a predator in this room that’s about to get me? Or am I just overworked and over-emotionally stimulated that the whole thing looks like a big predator, but it’s just this and this?”

Our brain is a rehearsal stage for future life events.

In our modern day, there isn’t a big predator. There are a lot of small things that we turn into a big predator. It’s taking a step back, being like, “Okay, I actually have this, this, and this on my plate, and I’ve got this emotional situation here.” It’s starting the movement in one category. 

Getting some to-dos done, like healthy dopamine hits, can pull you out of the freeze. “I’m going to wash the dishes and put them in the dishwasher,” and I can actually pull you out of freeze. Listening to music—music can help—and some action that gets something done. Or, “Will I pay these bills or send this email even though I feel frozen?” Some type of movement towards getting something done.

Sometimes, simply turn on music and let it move your body, and then change the music from slow to, eventually, maybe a little more intense, where you find your power again. I love five-rhythm dancing for this kind of thing. It takes you through different rhythms of the body. I love how it takes you from being slow and still to some power and release and then back into calmness. So, I highly recommend that.

It’s about looking for what you can influence rather than tackling the whole thing. You’ll go right back into freeze. Look at the thing and ask, “What can I start to change right now?” Maybe I have to have one difficult conversation today. That’s all you can do, but that’s what needs to be done.

Trauma is the result of an overwhelming emotional event that’s hard to process. Share on X

You said five rhythms. That’s an ecstatic dance, right? Who developed that? 

Yes. Gabrielle Roth. I found it to be one of the best forms of therapy for nervous system regulation in my healing process. I highly recommend it.

Awesome. I want to get back to retraining your brain to respond differently to potential food allergens. When you were talking about this, I was reminded of a conversation I had with another guest, Ian Mitchell. I shared with him how I know somebody, Alex, who’s allergic to bananas, but by accident, he discovered he’s not allergic to organic bananas. That was pretty shocking.

Ian shared that he used food allergens live on stage at conferences, like the biohacking conference, where one of his colleagues was allergic to shellfish. He put shrimp water from a shrimp cocktail or something like that onto one arm. Of course, it got all red, inflamed, and everything. Then, he put the shrimp water into a Leela Quantum Bloc, the infinity block from Leela Quantum Tech. He took it out and then put that one—it’s the same shrimp water but treated with quantum energy—on the other arm, and did not react. Pretty wild.

That would show that the nervous system perceived that it was changed energetically or molecularly. It had a different imprint that the nervous system didn’t recognize as a threat. I think I understand a little bit about that technology, and it is taking threatening fields of frequency and making them non-threatening. The body just didn’t recognize the same signature as it did with the shrimp water on the original arm.

I think we’ve spoken about Leela. Do you have the H.E.A.L. capsule? Do you have the quantum bloc?

It’s on my Christmas list. I just moved, and I do other things, but I’ve been reading about their stuff. I’m totally into that, so I will have one soon.

That’s awesome. By the way, if a listener is interested in getting an infinity block from Leela, besides listening to the episode with Philipp, the co-founder of Lila, and of course, Ian’s episode where we were talking about Leela as well, you’ll find that there is a discount code, STEPHAN10. You get 10% off. 

I don’t make anything off of that. Some people have an arrangement where they get 5% off, and the other 5% goes as an affiliate commission. I just said to give the 10% fully to the person purchasing the quantum bloc, and I don’t need any compensation for it. So if you want 10% off, STEPHAN10.

I have long been fascinated with the idea of morphogenic fields. We use our version in Primal Trust, called an attunement.

Anyway, I want to go back to something we were talking about a little bit: a shift in consciousness that’s happening, and things like the full Court of Atonement, an example of how to shift consciousness in the higher dimensions and then have that reflect here on the physical plane. Do you want to share anything about the Court of Atonement, your experience and understanding?

I have long been fascinated with the idea of morphogenic fields. We use our version in Primal Trust, called an attunement. It has a different purpose than the full Court of Atonement but the same concept. 

There are many dimensions of reality. When we as a collective have a specific intention, and the more people that have that intention in that particular field, a morphogenic field is created. This is why Dr. Joe Dispenza has all the great heart coherence results that he has. They create a morphogenic field with his heart coherence program. 

The full Court of Atonement is another morphogenic field with a specific intention, a specific frequency that we are attuning to, and putting a problem that we can only perceive with our third-dimensional awareness into a higher dimensional awareness to be sorted out by superconscious intelligence that we are a part of, that we have access to, and that our higher self is a part of. I think it’s simply making that intentional command to our higher self to say, “Hey, sort this out in the way that you know is best, and I’m willing to receive that.” 

We do a similar thing in Primal Trust with an Attunement. We say higher self and have these particular blocks in the body. You know where they came from. “Please open up those files, make edits, and shift that frequency in the body.” The higher self is in a different dimension.

How Healing Happens by Dr. Cathleen King

That is one of our future fields of understanding. As a collective, as we put our observational effect into these quantum fields and different frequencies, miracles will exponentially happen because we intend it as conscious beings. We collectively put our intentions into that field, which has more potential results. I know that sounds completely woo-woo, but it feels right to me when I think of it. 

Well, even if it is woo-woo, it’s how things really are. Either get with the program or stay with one’s head in the sand. We live in a woo-woo universe, not a purely physical one. Suppose somebody thinks that we are there, certainly not a listener. They’ve wanted to tune out of my show by now. 

Anyway, this was a delight. If our listener wants to work with you and your technologies, your modalities, and all that, does the Primal Trust program get into parasympathetic mode, into a place of regulation and healing? Where do they go? 

Our website is I will have a full new e-book about How Healing Happens with a lot of free tools and science. It’s like a free mini-program. It’s a little over 100 pages. It will give you a full download of this approach and tools to get started. You can find that on the website as well.

It’s just a monthly membership program, and you can cancel anytime. We have live classes, courses, and a whole community. It’s pretty amazing.

Awesome. Well, thank you, Dr. Cat. Thank you, listener, and make it a great week. We’ll find you on the next episode, hopefully healthier, more tuned in, and more regulated. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.

Important Links

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Further Resources


Checklist of Actionable Takeaways

?Embark on a journey of self-discovery. Delve into the root causes of my health issues rather than merely addressing my external symptoms.

?Cultivate a balanced lifestyle by incorporating elements of rest into my daily routine. Allow ample time for digestion, practice mindfulness, and minimize rushing to get things done.

?Implement practices that specifically target my vagus nerve and brain to signal safety to my nervous system.

?Practice somatic techniques. This allows me to sit with my emotions and release my past, stored trauma. Remain in tune with my body and emotions to experience positive growth and transformation.

?Create a foundation of nervous system regulation before I begin to process my trauma. Avoid re-traumatization. Ensure I have a supportive and regulated nervous system before I address my deep emotional wounds.

?Harness the power of brain retraining to create new positive associations and responses. The brain’s plasticity can allow me to rewire my thought patterns. This can pave the way for a positive and resilient mindset.

?Employ memory activation and repatterning techniques to shift my perception of the past. Rediscover my potential for healing. Actively reshape my relationship with past experiences through intentional memory work.

?Cultivate a mindset that anticipates positive outcomes and fosters resilience in the face of my challenges.

?Utilize movement and rhythm as tools to avoid freezing as a response to my challenges. This can help me regain a sense of personal power.

?Explore Dr. Cathleen King’s transformative technologies and modalities. Join her on a journey toward regulation and holistic well-being through the Primal Trust program at

Dr. Cathleen King

Dr. Cathleen King, DPT is a physical therapist and neuroscience-based mind-body practitioner. Her professional focus is on chronic illness and trauma healing. She is the CEO and founder of the Primal Trust™ Academy & Community, a rapidly growing worldwide platform helping others unlock their self-healing. Her online program combines brain retraining, vagus nerve toning, somatics, and trauma-informed techniques.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.


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