AS Seen On

By: Stephan Spencer


Dr. Kirby Hotchner
“True healing is the healing of the mind. Only a sick mind can convince you that you’re sick.”
Dr. Kirby Hotchner

The path to healing is not one size fits all. The human body is like a vast and complex universe with endless possibilities. Sometimes zooming in on some specific aspect only prevents you from seeing the bigger picture. And my guest, Dr. Kirby Hotchner, firmly believes that true healing begins with the mind and spirit.

Dr. Hotchner is a physician of 40 years and a spiritual healing minister dedicated to helping people awaken their true identity and learn what true healing is. He creates programs that teach people how to achieve optimal health, focusing on spiritual healing.

Without disregarding all the pains and suffering of chronic illnesses and everything negative in this world, this conversation holds a deeper discussion of what it truly means to overcome the mind. Most of the time, our perception becomes our reality. Once we harness power over that, we can then access permanent healing. If you’re willing to open your eyes and heart to the infinite possibilities that lie ahead, I encourage you to take the red pill and join us down the rabbit hole.

And now, without further ado, on with the show.

In this Episode

  • [00:30]Is there a place where true healing begins? In this interview, Stephan talks with Dr. Kirby Hotchner, a physician and spiritual healing minister with 40 years of experience, about how to achieve optimal health spiritually.
  • [02:25]Which alternative healing methods does Dr. Kirby prefer? What are the gaps in modern medicine?
  • [06:49]From where should we begin healing? When we give power to things like fear and hatred, what happens?
  • [11:33]Dr. Kirby explains that all suffering is rooted in false attachment.
  • [17:26]Stephan wants to know what led to Dr. Kirby’s spiritual awakening.
  • [20:19]Dr. Kirby discusses the third leading cause of death worldwide.
  • [25:36]In what way does Stephan define intuition?
  • [29:00]How does Buddha explain spiritual awakening to ancient Indians, as told by Dr. Kirby?
  • [33:43]Is belief equal to seeing, or does it require believing?
  • [38:09]What does ego do to distract us?
  • [43:44]Stephan asks Dr. Kirby which book he read as a teenager.
  • [47:25]What’s the opposite of the placebo effect?
  • [50:28]Are you interested in hearing more from Dr. Kirby? How about checking out his services? Check out his website at

Jump to Links and Resources

Dr. Hotchner, it’s great to have you on the show. 

Thank you, Stephan. I appreciate your inviting me. It’s a true honor. 

We’ve known each other for a little while. You’re treating me and my wife, Orion. It’s been a gift to have you in our lives and get your healing assistance. If we could start by maybe talking about the different kinds of modalities of healing and what the listeners would need to know that’s not kind of the standard menu of allopathic medicine that they might not know the true power of, whether it’s homeopathy, or osteopathy, or different kinds of energy healing, reiki, and so forth. What would be your favorite alternative healing modalities that our listeners should know about? 

I think the one element missing everywhere, whether in traditional medicine, which we call allopathic medicine, is in alternative or natural healing communities, is the unifying factor behind all healing, which is God, the spiritual healing. Without the recovery of the mind, healing doesn’t take place. 

The only self that God created us to be is his child—harmonious, perfect, and one with him.

Healing has to do with an awareness of our true self, the divine self, the only self that we are and setting the mind free from all the false beliefs that we picked up from living in this world and whom the world has told us we are. Suppose we don’t set the mind free from those false perceptions. In that case, we could do every one of those other healing modalities, whether it’s an allopathic medication, a surgery, or a supplemental, and it’s going to be to no avail. 

We have many patients that come in, and they tried everything. They’ve run the route of many doctors and tried many modalities. The reason it’s not working is that the mind is telling them the false belief that they’re sick. Sickness is a wrong perception of the mind. The only self that God created us to be is his child—harmonious, perfect, and one with him. So unless the awakening conscience takes place, we’re under the erroneous perception of something that’s not our truth. 

Due to spiritual ignorance, we have misperceptions in our minds, the shadows, images, dreams, illusions, call it what you will, of whom we think we are. The more we focus and give power to a shadow of that which isn’t our truth, the more we perpetuate it consciously or unconsciously. 

The truth is the unique thing I think we bring in helping each person awaken their consciousness. It doesn’t matter what modality the person does, whether they stick a needle in you and do acupuncture, they do manipulation, bodywork, or tapping. It’s not the outer that’s important. It’s the consciousness that comes through whatever the person is doing. 

The practitioner’s awareness is that the patient is already whole, complete, and the child of God. I see only my patients as the truth of who they are. Even though there’s an appearance in us of us being sick or flawed, that’s just an appearance. It’s just a universal image that everybody sees, but shadows are not the divine reality that God created us to be. So we must get back to that and see what’s in the person’s consciousness. What beliefs are they still holding onto that need to be healed or released? That’s where it’s at. 

God has a perfect plan for his children. You don't have to know how to do that because that's not your job. It's God's job. Share on X

It doesn’t mean we can’t do other modalities like changing our diet, exercise, or lifestyle. Those are helpful to a certain extent, maybe 10% of the healing, but they’re not enough alone. It’s sort of like the saying, and I think it’s in the Old Testament, “We don’t live by bread alone, but every word that comes out of the mouth of God.” We need the physical bread, nobody’s going to deny that, but we need the spiritual substance that flows from the consciousness of God to truly experience our divine self, the perfect health that God gave us.

We’re not trying to improve human health because that can change from moment to moment. We’re trying to awaken the mind to the divine health that God gave us because that’s eternal and never changes. I think that’s the piece that’s missing in medicine in most areas. 

Would you say that most illnesses, chronic pain, and health challenges have a spiritual and/or emotional root?

Only a sick mind can convince us that we’re sick.

Look at it this way. Our spirit is already perfect, so we don’t need to heal that part of our being which is our real self. Instead, we need to heal the mind, which has erroneous beliefs and perceptions about who we are. That’s why in the course of miracles, Jesus always says, “All true healing is the healing of the mind.” Only a sick mind can convince us that we’re sick.

As the mind is set free from the shadows, false beliefs and perceptions, we can wake up more and more to what we’ve always been. It’s like a part of our mind is asleep and dreaming. We have this dream, just like when you’re sleeping at night, that we’re separate from God, that we’re physical bodies, that we have these diseases, and that we’re aging. Those are all that we call universal beliefs. They’re just beliefs, and they’re not truths. Truth is what God created. 

These universal beliefs hypnotize everybody’s mind that’s born into this world. Since the time we were babies, the world, our families, and societies have told us that these beliefs are laws or they’re truths. They’re not truths, and they’re not laws. Only God’s laws are laws. Only God’s truth is truth.

To be free of all that, the mind needs to be alone and awakened. The light, of course, God is within us, it’s who we are, but we need assistance. We have to connect with the divine part of our mind, which you can call the Spirit of God or Holy Spirit, and allow that part of the mind that’s never forgotten who we are to wake up the part of the mind that’s asleep and dreaming, it’s forgotten, it’s misperceiving. 

Yes, the root of all illnesses is a misperception in our minds. It’s a false belief, as are all the emotions and thoughts in our minds from this world. They’re not the ones we share with God. They’re not our eternal thoughts and feelings that God has given us—pure love, peace, and joy. That’s our only reality. 

The Game of Life and How to Play It by Florence Scovel Shinn

When we feel something else like anxiety, fear, or hatred, we’re picking up stuff from the world, from the dream, and from the outer world because that didn’t come from within, from God. We’re giving it power by believing in it, by trying to heal it, fix it, or do something to overcome it. 

The more you try to overcome a shadow, the more that shadow will stick to you, the more it’ll seem real to you, and the more you’ll be mired in the dream. You’ll sink more into the shadow instead of opening to the light that’s within us, allowing that light to dispel the appearance of the shadow of the illness.

I look at it as the mind awakening the truth. We might be doing other things to assist us, but those things we’re doing are what Jesus would call the belief in magic. Anything other than awakening and spirit is sort of the belief in magic, the belief that you need something in this world to heal you. 

We may get a temporary benefit from taking a supplement, doing therapy, or treatment, but that’s not changing our consciousness. Unless what we do change is our consciousness, that healing that was brought about is just temporary. Other things will come back and take their place because our mind hasn’t been opened to the truth, and we’re still in a world of beliefs and two powers, good and evil. There is no evil in the child of God or in God’s creation, but we’re under the belief that evil is something that can affect us, and so that creates fear.

Everybody walks around in fear these days, especially in the last two years. Fear is not a spiritual reality. It has no spiritual existence. It only exists because of the power we give to it, the power we give to the darkness. We stop feeding the beast, and it starts disappearing. 

It’s all about embracing who we truly are, the light within us, the love, the peace, the abundance, and the fullness of God. It’s about allowing it out and through into our consciousness, which is why every step we take has to be a conscious step. We have to literally, by our own free will, open our consciousness every day to the divine within us to that which was given by our Father so that it can awaken us to remember we’ve been all along. That’s the process of awakening from the dream and awakening from our sleep. That’s why healing is really important. 

We’re given the ability not to create in this world but to project images from our minds.

Some people will push back against this statement that ‘there is no evil.’ They’ll point to things like the war in Ukraine, human slavery, murders that happen in various ethnicities, etc.

You’re talking about the human world, of human consciousness, the physical and mental plane. In the kingdom of God, in God’s creation, which is what I was referring to, there’s no darkness, no shadow, no evil. In human consciousness, that certainly does exist. There’s a strong belief in good and evil, which is why I’m saying we have to rise above the mind, above the physical, into the spirit, which is that pure place that is the only reality. The kingdom of God is the only reality.  

When the mind is asleep and dreaming, we can perceive appearances and images of evil and darkness in this world. This world is a world of belief and separation from God. It’s a place where, believe it or not, God comes into the dream world because if he was here, like you said, what kind of God would permit evil? But it doesn’t exist in his creation. That exists in the creation of the human mind. 

 We’re given the ability not to create in this world but to project images from our minds. You’ve heard of the experiment where people have taken a plant, and they’ve sent evil thoughts, and the plants died. On the other hand, they blessed the plant, said good thoughts, and the plant flourished. That’s on the mental plane. 

If you open up to the truth and you connect with that plan and your oneness of God, now you’re on the spiritual plane because God has created everything there is, including the plants, and now you’re seeing beyond the appearance of good and evil to the truth of what God created. It’s rising above the pair of opposites of good and evil into pure God, the pure truth. 

It depends on what plane you’re asking on. You don’t want to confuse orders or planes. Remember, there’s only one reality which is God’s. Everything else is a belief, a perception, or a misperception.

 It’s an illusion. 

The ego created all these planes of separation and complicated ways of seeing things in separation. That’s where the ego always directs us out into something in the world to look for the answer instead of within. It wants you to be afraid of looking within because its greatest fear here is you waking up because as you wake up, the ego’s world disappears. It totally disappears. You wake up from the dream. Do you understand what I’m saying? 

Yeah, I do. I think it’s important for our listeners to understand that it’s not that we’re denying somebody’s reality that they’re suffering, they’re in pain, or they see their loved ones in pain, treated unjustly, or suffering. This is really about accessing another dimension, another plane of existence that we may not see. 

You need the physical bread, but you also need the spiritual substance that flows from the consciousness of God to experience your divine self. Share on X

It’s not about denying their perceptions or their beliefs. Everybody has their beliefs and perceptions. It’s about teaching them to go deeper within and beyond their perceptions and beliefs to the truth of who they are, who their loved ones are, who everyone really is, to that place where none of this is actually happening or going on where they can see those people as they truly are as God created them to be. 

Just because the appearance of somebody has left with death, of course, that wasn’t who they really were because God created us to be permanent and eternal. The real self is unaffected by the appearances that are going on in our minds, which is hard for us because we miss the physical presence of the person that left us and is no longer with us.

As the deeper reality dawns on the person, that person is the child of God, just as I am, which is eternal. We share that always. We’re always connected to that. But the rest was a misperception that I had about whom I thought they were. That’s why I’m suffering. 

Just like what Buddha said, “The root of all suffering is the false attachment to something of this world that’s not true.” As we set our minds free of the misperception and we get more and more to the knowing, the absolute knowing that God is that person’s only reality, that the Christ or child of God on them is the reality, and I’m only going to accept that, and I’m not going to believe anything else about that person. No matter what they believe and no matter what anybody else says or believes, that’s not their truth. 

We must be willing to let go of every illusion we hold onto.

It sets the mind free, so you can experience every part of God’s creation as it truly is, as it’s always been. That’s the awakening of the truth, and that’s a process for all of us, and it’s dying daily to the illusions, the misperceptions, the old concepts that we had in our minds, and the old ways. That’s painful for a while because we’re so attached to those beliefs that we thought were true about us in the world, but we have to be willing to let go of every illusion we’re holding onto. 

Eventually, we’re going to have to do that, but the great thing is we’re given free will. We can choose to dream, to perceive them in whatever way we want, and to project appearances as good and evil. We can do that as long as we want. 

When we get tired of the pain and suffering of being in a dream world, we can choose to awaken, we can choose to remember, and then the whole universe will come to assist us. The Holy Spirit, the voice of God, will direct it perfectly and help us perfectly to awaken as that desire in our heart becomes our main desire to know the truth, to remember who we are to be truly free. 

Nobody can stop us from doing that once we make that decision, which is a decision we just need to make for ourselves. We can assist each other, but each person, at some point, has to also accept that for themselves. 

What was your process of awakening? Walk us through your journey of awakening. 

The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by Swami Vishnu-devananda

When I was 16, my mom had this book on yoga from a yoga master from India, and I picked it up. Immediately, the very next day, I started meditating. I started doing yoga. I became a vegetarian so I could awaken something in myself. I was the only one doing that. That was back in the ’60s. Nobody was doing that at the time. There were no whole food stores. I didn’t know anybody that was a vegetarian. 

I then got involved with a spiritual group where I became a yoga and meditation teacher. For two or three years while I was in college, I did that. I studied many different holy books, from the Bhagavad Gita to the Bible to the Torah, which is all speaking the same truth in different ways. 

Later on, after going to medical school, I got ordained by a spiritual minister who was actually a Roman Catholic priest who left the church to heal through the Holy Spirit. He ordained me in the 1990s, and then I had the honor of also knowing another really famous Christian healer, Dr. Willard Fuller, who was in the show 60 Minutes. He hasn’t been around for about 15 years. I met him in the last few days, and he would pray with people. 

He had the largest healing ministry for dental issues. He had hundreds of thousands of people heal their teeth by praying with them, growing new teeth, and fillings would come into the teeth. I saw it with my own eyes. He also ordained me as a minister to pray. I’ve done a few funerals and weddings, also my second role. 

As doctors or early educators, I think it’s important that if we don’t educate people on what true healing is, we’re doing them a disservice. In medical school, we’re taught nothing about healing at all. We’re literally taught only to look for disease’s effects, prescribe drugs, and do surgery. We’re not targeting anything else. We have a very limited toolbox. 

My path was having to learn all this stuff on my own from the different therapies like homeopathy, manipulation, lifestyle changes, and energy healing. Those of us that do this, and I started way before this was even a movement back in the early 1980s, we sort of had to teach ourselves. There were no homeopathic schools. There were barely even any health food stores back then. They made fun of a lot of us back then. Now everybody’s starting to do it, right? At least one way or the other. 

As doctors or early educators, I think it’s important that if we don’t educate people on what true healing is, we’re doing them a disservice.

I can’t imagine a world without healthy food stores.

It didn’t exist. It wasn’t in people’s consciousness. Also, if you remember, back in the ’50s and ’60s, it was a much simpler time. We didn’t have so many toxins. We didn’t have all the Roundup, we didn’t have all the vaccines, we didn’t have all the drugs, and we didn’t have the cell phones and computers. 

We weren’t being poisoned in so many different ways by the environment in which we live. In a sense, it was a healthier and simpler world. It was a little bit easier to heal back then, except people didn’t have the consciousness of the other healing modalities.

Remember, acupuncture didn’t even come to the United States until Richard Nixon brought it here. None of those healing modalities were around. We didn’t have body talk, and we didn’t have EFT or any of these things that we have around now. We didn’t have any of the technology. We didn’t have computers.

There’s a blessing in many of the things we have now, but technology has also brought with it more challenges, as you know, with all the computers, electromagnetic fields, all of the different drugs we have now, and all the different toxins that we use and everything. We didn’t have much of that back then. 

The rate of chronic disease in the early ’80s was only 12%. Now it’s 54%. There’s been a huge shift from the 1980s to now, an explosion of chronic disease has gone on, and we’re one of the worst countries in the world. We have the supposedly greatest healthcare system, but we’re at the bottom of the list in bringing really true good healthcare to our people. 

We don’t live as long. We don’t live as healthily. We take more drugs than anybody else in the world. We charge more money for our drugs. We kill more people by giving drugs and surgery than any other country in the world. It’s the third leading cause of death, depending on whom you listen to—doctor-induced death. 

There’s no reality other than God. There’s no power other than God. There’s no life other than God’s life. The rest is a dream.

The stuff that we put in our bodies in terms of the sustenance, or lack thereof, the food we eat, it’s a bad word. SAD, the Standard American Diet. It’s a terrible thing, and yet most of us eat that garbage.

Ninety percent of the food people eat is processed food for most people. Remember, processing, and refining food didn’t start in the 1920s. Before then, our ancestors ate whole food. They introduced synthetic fats like processed vegetable oils like canola oil and sunflower oil in the 1920s and 1930s, which took a dramatic change that was very inflammatory. Then, we added synthetic vitamins like synthetic iron to our food in the 1940s.

Since then, the rate of chronic diseases has exploded as we have gotten away from nature. Then we took all the natural substances out of the soil. In the 1940s, we stopped rotating crops in many places. We stopped doing organic farming, adding manure, and we started adding synthetic fertilizers to the soil, NPK. That NPK destroyed all the flora and natural microbes in the earth, and it prevented all the natural nutrients and minerals which are in the soil from getting into crops. 

Since the 1940s and progressively on from then, we’ve had fewer and fewer nutrients in our food. Then we started spring in the 1980s, the Roundup, the glyphosate everywhere. Glyphosate binds all our nutrients, particularly the chemo inside copper, a key mineral that regulates the body. 

We all have intuition. The voice of God is in all of us.

Now, not only are we not having it in the soil, but we’re also giving people things that are destroying their flora, all these antibiotics, and not allowing us to absorb these key nutrients and minerals, so we need to be in good health. 

Glyphosate even arrives in the rainfall. 

It’s a little more challenging. We have to take even more care now to make sure we eat an organic whole foods diet as much as possible and get some of these whole food complexes that still have some of these minerals in them. 

Do you do some sort of muscle testing or connecting to Spirit to see if a particular food or supplement is good for you or for your client? I already know the answer to this, but tell us how that works and why it works. 

I do that for my clients. I always tune in to Spirit first and open up to the Holy Spirit so he can guide me and everything that I do. Then I do tune in to what resonates best with the patient in terms of supplements or whatever techniques they need, that kind of stuff. 

We all have intuition. The voice of God is in all of us. We learn to listen to that, and we can really tune in, listen, and see how we feel to tune in to what’s right for us. I encourage everybody to tune into the voice of God within you. It’s speaking all the time. 

By the way, I have a great definition of the word intuition. I just learned it from the book, The Game of Life and How to Play It. It’s by Florence Scovel Shinn. It was written back in 1925. It’s a fabulous book. 

A person that’s not rooted in God can’t do anything to you. They can’t touch your real self.

The definition that she gave for intuition is teaching from within. By the way, she also gave a great definition of fear, which is “inverse faith.” So the opposite of fear is faith, and faith is fear. The way she described fear as inverse faith, I found to be very powerful because it’s essentially faith in the dark side or faith in the negative instead of faith in God.

Fear is the absence of the awareness of love, God’s presence. Without the awareness of God, we feel fear because we feel separate and alone. Fear doesn’t exist. It doesn’t come from God. It’s a universal belief in human consciousness that arises because we are dreaming, we’re asleep, we feel separate, and we feel vulnerable to the different forces in this world. 

As Jesus said when they were about to crucify him, Pilate said, “I have power over you. What would you have me do?” He said, “You have no power over me. Unless it was given from God above, my Father, you can do nothing to me. Yours is a temporal power. Everything in this world is a temporal power.” 

A person that’s not rooted in God can’t do anything to you. It can’t touch your real self. The real self is untouched by anything in this world. Nothing can affect it. Nothing can change who you really are, only who you think you are.

A couple of my favorite movies convey this concept in a Sci-Fi sort of way, one is The Matrix, and the other is Avatar. In Avatar, the person is in a pod, and they’re occupying the body of an alien as if they are fully immersed in that alien’s world and experiencing it in full ultra high-definition reality, and that’s how I see it. 

That’s basically what’s going on. In The Matrix and the Avatar, we’re asleep in the kingdom of God, dreaming that we’re in this body. Actually, in all of this, we’re experiencing the bodies in our consciousness. And the part of us is asleep and dreaming just like an Avatar. They weren’t in the body. It was just a dream. Same in The Matrix; they weren’t really in the Matrix. It was all about, like in the later part one of the movies in The Matrix waking up in the light to the truth of who we are. 

I’m getting goosebumps while you’re saying that, and the angel bumps, the confirmation from angels, the profound truth, and something I need. 

There are many things that are symbolic in a lot of the movies and books that have come out. There’s a lot of symbolism for that in many ways. 

Yeah, there’s a lot more disclosure of the bigger picture and what it is, Truth. We’re getting more and more acclimated to this somewhat foreign concept to many people that this is an illusion that we are experiencing. That the only thing real here is love, unconditional love in God. That’s it. 

Fear is not a spiritual reality and has no spiritual existence. It only exists because of the power you give to it. When you stop feeding fear, it starts disappearing. Share on X

Buddha said it. All the great masters have said the same thing. They’ve called it different names—”Maya,” “Illusion,” “Hypnotism,” and “Mesmerism.” But every single spiritual teacher that’s had an awakening from the dream and remembered who they are. 

Buddha said when he added elimination, they asked him, “What is the difference between how you feel now and before?” He said, “The only difference is now that I’m awake, I realized that the rest was a dream. Now I remember the truth.” He’s spent 30 years traveling the planet to find healing for suffering and pain. It wasn’t until he had his illumination that he realized the suffering and the pain was an illusion. 

Now, that’s not to negate what people are feeling at all. It doesn’t mean that people don’t feel those things, and we don’t have a lot of compassion. That’s why he was called the Compassionate Buddha. But it does mean if we are going to truly help them, we take them beyond the appearance that’s in their mind deeper within to their truth. It’s only when they experience it that they’ll truly be free of their pain. 

It doesn’t mean we don’t use common sense to do whatever we need to do while we’re awakening. If you need to take something for the pain or whatever is temporary to help you, there’s nothing wrong with that. But that alone isn’t going to take you to the place you need to be in the awakening to set you free from the Avatar suit, from being in the Matrix ship or being in the sense of a physical body. 

We want to use these experiences of being in the body as teaching tools. This is a teaching place to teach us to awaken, heal, and truly remember who we are. Every single experience when we have that attitude is a healing awakening experience if we use it in that light to teach us what’s real, to teach us what’s love, to teach us to remember who we are, and to set us free from that which we truly don’t desire, which is the pain, the suffering, the fear, the rejection, and the loneliness. Nobody really wants that.

When a person is hurting, and they attack you or do something bad or evil, it’s a call for help. What they really want is love.

When a person is hurting, and they attack you or do something bad or evil, it’s a call for help. What they really want is love. What they really want is an acknowledgment of who they really are, and they don’t know how to ask for that, so they lash out. They make anything mean or bad or hurtful to you. We’re not to attack them. As Jesus said that you have to forgive them for their ignorance. Forgive them, and only love is the appropriate response to a call for help. 

I remember learning this, Tony Robbins said it. “Every human interaction is either a loving response or a cry for help.”

Exactly. We don’t want to knock our brothers down when they’re calling for help and punch them in the face. Obviously, if you need to protect yourself from somebody hurting you, you have to do that. What that person is really looking for is freedom from pain, freedom from their suffering, and the awakening of love because everybody’s really deep down inside looking for love.

The problem is they don’t realize that they are love and that it’s inside of them. Unless they find it inside themselves, they’re not going to find it out there in the world. Everybody’s looking for the answer out there in the world. 

Everybody’s looking for the answer out there in the world, when the answer is always right inside our consciousness.

People have spent fortunes looking for something to heal them or something to awaken them. It’s the whole story of the Holy Grail, King Arthur, in the Prodigal Son wandering away from the father’s house. When the answer is always right inside our consciousness, that’s what Jesus said. You don’t need to go here, there, to Jerusalem, or the holy mountains. The Kingdom of God is within our consciousness, and you’re only going to find it by going within, getting quiet, listening, opening, being still, and allowing the Father within to reveal Himself to you.

People hate being quiet. Have you noticed that? They have to have that music blasting. They can’t behave their minds to quiet for a second. People are looking for stimulation, so they don’t feel their pain and suffering. They want to drown it out with drugs, alcohol, or some kind of addiction or music.

The only permanent answer to that that really sets some free is being still and allowing the spirit of God in them to set their mind free. He knows how to do that. God has a perfect plan for his child and his desires to awaken. We don’t have to know how to do that. That’s not our job. That’s God.

People are looking for stimulation, so they don’t feel their pain and suffering.

I take a long drive sometimes, and we’re going to be driving here in a few hours to Orlando. On one of these trips where I was going from Orlando to Miami back home, I couldn’t put on music, podcast, or anything because other family members were asleep. Orion was sleeping, and David. My mother-in-law and sister-in-law were in the car as well, so everyone was sleeping.

It was a long drive. Finally, I decided to start having a conversation. This internal dialogue, it’s not just with your subconscious mind. It’s with the Holy Spirit, with your ancestors and loved ones who are on the other side of the veil if you so choose. You can tune them out if you don’t believe them. It’s not seeing and believing, it’s believing and seeing. I understood this, and so I started having a conversation with God. 

At one point, I remembered having this profound experience at a program called 40 Years of Zen, which is one of Dave Asprey’s companies. It’s a week-long neurofeedback program. It unlocked some childhood memories, some really wonderful memories that I hadn’t had since my childhood. I thought, “wow, that is so beautiful.” That alone was worth the five-figure cost for that week-long program. 

Then I asked God to please send me more of my memories from my childhood. I asked for a lot more than what I got at 40 Years of Zen, which I’d gone to several years earlier. It wasn’t like a recent thing. It was 2018 when I went to 40 Years of Zen with Orion. Instantly tens of memories flooded into my consciousness. I just needed to ask.

Those happy memories, of course, are the only things that are real in this world, and they’re all stored up there. As we awaken more and more, we remember those things. Everything else is just part of the dream, and we eventually got to let that go.

The bad things you think you did, the things that made you feel guilty or wrong, are just part of the dream. You didn’t actually do any of that. You only did that in the “Avatar suit.” You didn’t do that in the real world, in the kingdom of God.

Practicing the Presence by Joel S. Goldsmith

True forgiveness of ourselves and others is to forgive the appearances in your mind that you thought was true and the awakening of the mind to that which is true. That’s what forgiveness is. It sets us free from that which isn’t really into that which is real, so we can experience, like you experienced, more and more of those loving memories, those joyful, happy memories, not only of your childhood but of eternity. We have an eternity of those because we’re eternal beings, and we’re all connected. 

We’re all one with each other and all of creation. The illusion of separation is just that, an illusion. The only mind that’s in all of us is God’s mind. The only life that flows to us all is God’s life. The only substance that everything is made of is God’s substance.

As we go deeper and deeper into that, you realize that I just need to rest more and more in truth. No mental effort, no physical effort. I just need to rest back and the truth of who I really am and allow it to manifest and reveal itself to me. Just like you did when you were in the car. 

Yeah. Another thing too.

They’re the same. You got quiet. 

I did it for hours, and it was beautiful. So here’s another corollary to that, which is when you go down this conspiracy theory, conspiracy fact, rabbit holes, you find there’s a lot of truth and a lot of injustice, evil, and so forth, but you’re actually creating that. It’s like a virtual reality game that’s being rendered in real-time. The wireframes are filled in with full high-definition rendering as you start learning about the dark stuff like the shadow governments and others.

The ego has many ways of distracting us, so we don’t turn ourselves into the light. So there are many like you say, rabbit holes or pathways we could go down if we want to examine and analyze the ego. But why would you want to analyze or study that which isn’t real, that which isn’t of God, that which is a dream? 

There is no reality other than God.

You’re wasting your time and anchoring that more and more, and you’re conscious of giving it power. Remember, it’s really simple. There is no reality other than God. There’s no power other than God. There’s no life other than God’s life. The rest is a dream. Once you get that you’re the dreamer of the dream, then your desire begins to awaken, not try to do anything to the dream because the dream isn’t real. 

In the apartment of the Oracle in The Matrix movie, he bends down and talks to this little boy who is bending spoons with his mind. He asks the boy, “What’s the secret?” The boy turns to him and the secret is there is no spoon. 

When Neo was working on his skills and abilities to download things into his consciousness around kung fu, jiu jitsu, and all that sort of stuff and gaining skills and abilities, that wasn’t a bad thing for him to do, but it was unnecessary when he evolved to the point where he saw the code, and he could make the bullet just drop out of thin air because they didn’t actually exist. So instead of wasting his energy dodging those bullets, he didn’t have to anymore because he got to that part of that level in the video game. 

The same thing happened with Jesus. When they were persecuting Jesus, he was able to walk through walls and become invisible. It’s the same thing because he realized that it was just a dream. This is just a dream world and the walls aren’t solid, the bullets aren’t solid, and the spoon isn’t really there. 

Without healing the mind, true healing doesn’t take place.

None of this is really here. It’s just an image in our minds. Only what’s really here is the kingdom of God, which is very tangible and very real, but we’re asleep to it. That’s what Jesus said over and over. The Kingdom of God is right here in the midst of you and you see it.

You have eyes, but you don’t see. You have ears, but you don’t hear. These eyes and ears aren’t made to see into the Kingdom of God. They’re made to see into the dream. They’re just sensors for the dream. It’s an inner eye and inner ears that have to open up to become awakened.

 When we ask for Christ’s vision, which is our true vision, then we can see through the appearance. The Holy Spirit will help you see through the appearance of sickness, of age, of evil, to what’s really there. 

Never, never, never judge and bind to appearance, which is why Jesus says, “Judge not by appearances, judge righteously.” Let the Holy Spirit’s judgment, but God’s only judgment manifests as his child, creation, and perfection. That’s the only reality that’s really there, even if you’re not seeing it. We ask the Holy Spirit to help you to see through the appearance and see what’s really there. You’ll be surprised. 

What would you say if this is somebody who’s like a Christian Scientist and they don’t believe in treating their sick child with medicines or taking them to a doctor? That just the power of God is going to heal that person, and then that child dies.

If they really are at their level of consciousness, most of them are not at that level of consciousness where they can bring that healing about like the consciousness that Jesus said. I would say whatever you need to do according to your level of consciousness, they know for healing, then they could use materia medica, medicine, or whatever, and they shouldn’t discard that.

Autobiography of a Yogi by Parmahansa Yogananda

If the person is truly living on just a physical level, allow them to have those physical means because it’s the only way they’re going to get some because they believe that it is working. Of course, they’re using the mind. It’s mental healing, but it’s going to work for them to some limited extent. Why would you knock out all those person’s beliefs when they’re not at that level?

If you’re a Christian Science or Jehovah’s Witness and you don’t believe in that, yet you’re not fully open to the truth of spirit, then that child is probably not going to have healing spiritually because their consciousness isn’t open enough to that reality for that to take place and you’re denying them other help that might help them at least temporarily heal what’s going on.

I think we must be open to where we are in our point of consciousness to whatever benefits us. In my practice, I’ll consult people on what’s a good diet, or I’ll teach them some helpful supplements, but I always emphasize that spiritual healing is important. You can do it all. One doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive from the other.

Yeah, that is very true. 

It’s true that if you have that state of consciousness and it was high enough, and you were open enough that you wouldn’t need anything else. But how many people are actually at that place right now and able to do that every day? They wouldn’t be in our office in the first place. They wouldn’t need me. How many people do you know that are like that? Not too many, right?

It’s super rare. There are people I’ve heard of who can do things like incarnate and disincarnate. 

How many of them have you actually met? How many have you personally known? 


That’s my point. I’ve heard of those people, too, but I’ve never met one. It’s not very common. 

By the way, what book did you read as a 16-year-old that came from your parents? Was it the Autobiography of a Yogi?

It’s called The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga by Swami Vishnu-devananda. He’s probably not alive anymore. This is probably from the 1950s. You can see the pictures are sort of old. There’s a whole section on vegetarianism, yoga postures, and meditation, which, back in the 1960s, not a lot of people were doing in the United States. 

That was very cutting-edge.

The other thing I failed to mention, about 30 years ago, I had a book materialized in my house from Joel Goldsmith that was my favorite mystic. I had never heard of him. He wasn’t alive. His book, Practicing the Presence, materialized in my house and changed my life. 

Joel is probably one of the greatest mystics that a lot of people haven’t heard about because in the 1940s, ’50s, and ’60s, he traveled around the world for 35 years, helping hundreds of thousands of people to heal by teaching them three principles. 

The three principles he always said in every book and every lecture, number one, is that everyone that’s born into this world is under the universal belief of two powers that arise from human consciousness: good and evil. That has hypnotized our minds to accept a false sense of reality.

Step one in healing is to impersonalize everything that comes into your mind from this world.

He said step one in healing is to impersonalize everything that comes into your mind from this world. “This isn’t mine.” If I’m feeling anxiety, that’s a universal belief in two powers. It’s not mine. I don’t need to accept it. 

Number two, he said, “If it didn’t come from God, it has no existence, it has no spiritual reality, no power, no law. It’s made of the substance of nothingness. If it’s nothingness and it’s just a universal belief, I can drop it.” 

Then the third principle was that God constitutes our individual being, mind, life, and substance. I have to open up, be quiet, and listen now so I can have that actual experience in the oneness of God. That was another thing that really changed my life. That book and this one. 

It is just materials in your house. It just showed up out of nowhere? 

It just materialized in my house. 

That’s really cool. Who do you think?

I think we all have things that come into our lives to teach us when we’re ready, whether it’s a person, a book, a teacher, or an experience. If we’re open, it’ll come to you. 

Who do you think put that book in your house? 

Nobody put it there. It just came out of nowhere. My wife didn’t know him. We didn’t buy it. Nobody bought it. It wasn’t there the day before. 

Do you think angels put it there? 

Oh, that I have no idea.

Okay, that’s really cool. I get a lot of things happening. I’ve never heard of a particular mystic, healer, or psychic, and it’ll show up in my news feed or on the YouTube homepage or something. 

You can explain it away with algorithms and so forth, but there’s something called Shufflemancy where it’s like bibliomancy, where you open a book seemingly randomly, but it’s exactly the right page for the information that you’re seeking or needing to read at the moment. That happens on the computer too. 

When you discover amazing things like that book, The Game of Life and How to Play It, it’s nothing I’d never heard of. It’s a 100-year-old book. Never heard of it before and it shows up as a suggested video on YouTube. I just felt compelled to listen to the audio of it. 

When the student’s ready, the teacher shows up in one form or another.

As I said, when the student’s ready, the teacher shows up in one form or another. The teachers, really, as you open and make your own connection internally, whatever you need will be brought to you. It’s because you made an inner connection first because everything’s not out there. It’s taking place in your consciousness. Now your consciousness is opening the truth and the truth is going to manifest here as experiences to help you to awaken whatever you need. You just have to be open.

I think about the opposite of that happening where a loved one will go to an oncologist and get a prognosis that they have three months to live. That doctor has played God and set things up for a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

That’s called “medical hexing.” It’s the opposite of the placebo effect. It’s the nocebo effect. Whereas if the person believes what the doctor said, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because they’ve accepted now, out of fear, that something is not true and created a false sense of reality. 

Of course, they’re not going to really die because you don’t really die, but the physical body will disappear from the scene sooner than it would have because they’ve accepted a false sense of self. That false sense of self is going to die anyway because it’s not the reality. They’ve just hastened it. 

The doctor, not knowing any spirit to show light at all on them has basically placed a curse on them, basically a curse, a hex by saying, “you’ve got three months to live.” They say you should tell them life is eternal. No matter what happens to this physical body, you’re going to be fine, which is what I teach people. 

There's only one reality, God's. Everything else is a belief, perception, or misperception. Share on X

I’ve had people come in, believe it or not, here as a patient one day and the next day; they were dead. They needed to come and meet me just to hear the truth of who they were so they could pass and remember. I’ve had that happen several times, people within two or three weeks to live, and a relative brought them in. It’s too late to do anything physical, but they needed to get that message spiritually so they could be in contact with who they really are and be at peace when they make their transition. That propels them greatly into that awareness of the true self. 

Even though we’re out of the sense of the body, if our consciousness, which goes on with us, is still in fear or in the belief of separation, we’re going to have to come back and do it over and over again until we wake up from the dream. 

Many people are getting to the point, at least many of my patients have, I don’t want to keep doing it over and over. I want to wake up. I don’t want to keep coming back into this world which you don’t do when you wake up unless it’s by choice to help others to awaken. Those experiences that we all have, you and I have had, are the experiences that help us to remind us of who we are and help us to awaken. You got that book. I’m sure it was a big thing for you. 

If it didn’t come from God, it has no existence, no spiritual reality, no power, and no law.

This has been a really powerful discussion. Thank you for sharing all this. If our listeners want to learn more from you, I believe you also do online services or is it just for patients? 

A couple of things. We have a website where they can go to where we have a lot of information. We also do a healing service once a month on the second Saturday of each month. We do it here in the clinic in person. We also do it online through Instagram and Zoom, though we’ve had a little problem with the technology. We probably need to reach out to you for help with that. People can connect around the world through Zoom or Instagram. They could always contact the office to get on that mailing list if they’re not a patient. 

Awesome. Your practice is full so you don’t take any new patients on at the moment. Is that still true? 

We’re solidly booked for three to four months into the future. I can barely get my established patients in. Until we get more space in the schedule, I can’t, in good faith, take on any new clients. We hope to be able to do that, but I have a responsibility to the ones I already have. I would love to be able to. 

I know people ask about their relatives all the time, but we spend a lot of time with our clients. They spend an hour and a half with new patients and 40 minutes. We only see 8–10 people a day. There are only so many people you can see in a day. I don’t spend five to seven minutes like a regular doctor. 

It’s crazy to think that a typical doctor’s appointment, is under ten minutes. This is crazy. 

Everyone born into this world is under the universal belief of two powers that arise from human consciousness: good and evil. Share on X

Five to seven minutes. 

Well, thank you, Dr. Hotchner. This is fabulous and you’re doing such wonderful work in the world. I appreciate you. My wife appreciates you. You have a lot of fans. 

I appreciate you guys very much for the work you’re doing and sharing this with all the different people, bringing this into many people’s consciousness and exposing them to many different points of view so that people can see and think outside the box and really be open to things that are not just the traditional methods of healing. 

It’s so important.

I’m really pleased, and I don’t do this very often. I just know it’s not right to do this to you. 

Yeah, well, thank you for doing so. 

Thank you very much for inviting me. 

Dr. Hotchner, thank you.

All right. Well, blessings to everybody out there, and I hope this is exactly what you need to hear. 

Amen for that. Thank you, and we’ll catch you on the next episode. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.

Important Links

Checklist of Actionable Takeaways

?Set my mind free from false, worldly beliefs. Healing takes place when the mind is in the best condition. So ask the question: what are the beliefs I’m still holding onto that need to be healed or released?

?Establish a connection with the Divine. Allow the mind to wake up to the truth — that I am healed and everything is happening for me.

?Embrace the light within me. Allow love, peace, abundance, and the fullness of God to manifest in my life and consciousness.

?Rise above the physical and come into the spirit. The kingdom of God is in the spirit, which is a pure place.

?Stop feeding my fear. Fear is not a spiritual reality and has no spiritual existence. It only exists because of the power I give to it.

?Help others go beyond their perceptions and beliefs to the truth of who they are, their loved ones, and who everyone really is.

?Spend more time in silence to listen to God. Allow the Father to reveal Himself to me and guide me in everything I do.

?Be more forgiving of myself and others. True forgiveness is when I free myself from negativities and allow loving and beautiful memories to fill me for eternity.

?Never judge by appearance. Instead, ask for Christ’s vision, the true vision, to see through the appearance. Let the Holy Spirit help me see through the appearance of sickness, age, evil, etc.

?Visit Dr. Kirby Hotchner’s website to learn more about him and his services.

About Dr. Kirby Hotchner

Dr. Kirby Hotchner is a physician of 40 years and a spiritual healing minister dedicated to helping people awaken to their true identity and learn what true healing is, which is always of the mind. Dr. Hotchner creates programs that teach people how to achieve optimal health, focusing on spiritual healing.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.


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