AS Seen On

By: Stephan Spencer


On an average workday, how long do you spend sitting in front of a computer? Does your office have artificial lights? Do you microwave a meal for dinner and then sit down in front of the TV? Although we spend most of our time in environments filled with electromagnetic fields or EMFs, we rarely think about this kind of radiation exposure, but what effect are all these devices having on our bodies? There’s growing evidence that our lifestyles could be causing adverse effects like headaches, ringing in the ears, lack of energy, weight gain or worse. One of the few people exploring this phenomenon is Jason Bawden-Smith.

Jason Bawden-Smith
“If you lose your health, you lose everything.”
Jason Bawden-Smith

Jason was a successful entrepreneur until he was struck down by twenty chronic illnesses. He healed himself and now he’s on a mission to help others via his books and talks. On this episode, Jason will reveal how he beat his own illnesses and how you can detoxify your environment and develop a healthy relationship to technology. It’s essential reading for anyone who’s ever wondered if their cell phone is secretly harming them. If this episode leaves you wanting to learn more about how to biohack your EMF exposure, then I also recommend reading my interviews with Brian Hoyer and Luke Storey.


Jason, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Thank you, Stephan. Thank you for inviting me on the show. I love the work you’re doing and we have some great information to share with your audience.

I was inspired when I saw you present at the Genius Network meeting and you shared some powerful information and you did some very powerful demonstrations too showing the EMF exposure that certain devices give off that we don’t even think about. You got me rethinking about getting an Apple Watch, which was on my wishlist until I heard from you some of the implications of that. Let’s start by sharing your story of how you ended up getting sick and how you got yourself well again because that’s an incredible story.

By way of background, I’m not a medical doctor. I don’t treat or diagnose patients. I’m an environmental guy. My background is I started a company cleaning up the environment, what your American audience would understand as Superfund sites, as a consultant. It has grown into one of the biggest in the country, thanks to my partners and incredible staff. My main education is Applied Science in Environmental Health. I’m a court of law testimony expert on the impact of the environment on human health. I did two science degrees. I spent nearly eight years in academia. I published my original research on lead poisoning. I’m a toxicologist by profession. I didn’t learn anything about what I’m about to share.

Don’t feel that, “I’ve never heard this. This can’t be true. This is the opposite of what I got taught,” because I came from that same position. If you remember from the Genius Network talk, I started that with, “Turn your BS meter into full. I don’t want you to believe a word I’m saying. I want you to look into this yourself.” With that said, what happened, because I was a corporate guy, I’d get up early, usually before the sun and go into a city environment. I worked on artificial lights in front of a computer for many years. As a company builder, when you start off, you spend a lot of time at work. Some of us sacrifice our family time, which we should not do. That was a big mistake by me. Over time, I got a little bit sick. It’s nothing major. It’s nothing that stopped me.

I have a very strong constitution. I’m not sure if it’s the Scottish background or the convict blood as they call us in Sydney where we’re sent over from England as convicts. I kept going and I was okay. Before you knew it, I was 150 kilos, which is about 240 pounds. I’m a pretty big guy anyway, but that’s way too heavy. Then one day my knees went. I could barely walk. MRI scans found grade-4 cartilage. I could barely get around. Going downstairs, I had to walk like a crab, side-to-side, in complete pain. I knew then I needed to do something. When I get a full evaluation of my medical, I found out I had cancer, a small heart attack, diabetes and extreme high blood pressure. I had all these injuries and illnesses. Some people call them illnesses like gout and plantar fasciitis.

I had lots of back issues, with an L4 herniated, perforated disc, you name it. It went on and on. I went, “This is serious,” particularly cancer. There’s something about that word, the fear around that word that shocks you. It shocks you to the core. I went, “We need to address it.” My cancer was skin cancer, which is very common in Australia. Everyone wants to blame the sun, but I haven’t seen the sun for twenty years. On weekends, I saw the sun. We’re a sunburned country, so the sun’s everywhere. I spent all my time inside and I didn’t get into nature as I used to as a kid. I went to all the medical specialists. I went to all the functional and alternative holistic style medicine. I then even tried some herbs and Chinese and some alternative stuff. Some of it worked a little bit, but nothing got me better.

You need to own your morning. Click To Tweet

I was facing surgery for cancer. I went, “There’s something I’m missing. What am I missing?” I know it’s ironic, but I was down at the beach at sunrise and I got this inspiration to study physics and biology. I went, “Physics and biology? I’ve heard of biochemistry, but biophysics and health? Come on.” You do what you do. You get on your favorite search engine and you start typing away, looking and searching. I found this doctor, a neurosurgeon out of New Orleans. His name is Dr. Jack Kruse and there was a podcast that he did. I listened to it and went, “There’s something about this guy. There’s something about the message. There’s something about the resonance I got from what he was saying.”

I decided to join his community and once I got in there, my head exploded. He teaches quantum mechanics together with medicine. You’re doing two of the hardest degrees on the planet by yourself via computer and that’s not how I learn. The good news was he gave us some simple protocols and they were all based around this DNA that many of you may have not heard of. It’s called mitochondria. People might know the word mitochondria and it had something to do with energy in the cell, but they don’t realize that it’s a completely separate genome. You only get it from your mother’s side of the family. It’s not your nuclear genome, which you get from both parents. We’ve got a whole different set of DNA that there are literally hundreds to thousands in your brain and heart cells. There are many thousands of little mitochondria in every cell that you have. Some people say it makes up to 10% to 15% of our body weight.

Why didn’t I understand about this DNA? Let’s do these protocols. They’re all around improving motor control function. Doug Wallace and several other very smart people have determined that 80% to 85% of all chronic illness is related to mitochondrial function, not your nuclear DNA. Kruse has upgraded that material and he says it’s 95% of all chronic diseases, and we’re talking cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease, autoimmune, all those chronic diseases that are coming on strong in our society at incredible rates. Every second person I met is sick. I didn’t know about it and I’ve been studying this forever. You’ll find that your medical practitioner will not know this information at the level that he or she needs to. Not because they’re stupid or they don’t want to, but because they were never taught it. The reason they were never taught it was mitochondria was discovered in 1970 as coming from your mother. A lot of people who have graduated in the ‘80s and ‘90s probably wouldn’t have had this information available. It’s fairly new.

The second reason is that our whole system, whether it’s in the US, the UK or Australia, is all centered around DNA, drugs and surgery methodology. Alternative medicine is similar. Instead of using drugs and surgery, they use massage and supplements. They’re quite similar based on biochemistry, never on biophysics. We’ve been rowing a boat with one oar. Biochemistry and DNA are critical. Let’s not forget that. We’re not throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. We just have another DNA we need to focus on because it’s that DNA that gives us our energy and it also produces special water that we need in our body to function.

I went and implemented these protocols. Many of you know what they are already. You just don’t realize how important they are. By following these protocols and doing them properly, I have reversed virtually every chronic disease. I still have grade 4 cartilage damage in my knees, because hard cartilage doesn’t grow back. Maybe the stem cell work can do that, but my soft cartilage has grown over it to protect it. Now, I can walk up and downstairs. Am I ever going to be a hiker? Of course, not. The damage is done. All the cancer is gone. The heart disease is gone. The blood pressure is back to normal. Diabetes is gone, all by doing these simple steps, which is essentially going to the beach and eating oysters.

The gout and the plantar fasciitis, that’s gone as well?

The Miracle Morning: The Not-So-Obvious Secret Guaranteed to Transform Your Life (Before 8AM)

Yeah, I drink red wine not as much as I used to. There’s no problem. I eat a lot of seafood, which a lot of people get gout from and there’s no problem. There is absolutely no gout. I do have a gout treatment unrelated to this. I did manage it when I had it, which is very simple. I have nothing now. I have virtually zero pain and I have lived my whole life in pain. I do exercise, mainly functional movement. I’m not into going to a gym at night, exercising under lights with everyone with all these artificial frequencies. That doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I go to the beach every day to see the sunrise. I live in Sydney in the beachside suburb, Coogee Beach. I go down there every morning to see the sun and have a swim. The morning sunrise is critical for health. Hal Elrod taught us that with his Miracle Morning. He just doesn’t understand the biophysics behind why it works. I can’t wait to tell him that one day.

I’ve had Hal on this podcast.

He’s great. He’s doing wonderful work. I will try and get in touch with him but like you, I’m busy and we’ll catch up eventually. The Miracle Morning is really important. You need to own your morning. It’s not just for the morning, the sunrise, it’s for all the reasons Hal talks about. The other thing I did is I managed my living environment. We are born naked and meant to live outside. We’ve forgotten that. That’s how we have evolved for billions of years. We did the opposite. We’ve got too smart for our own good and said, “Let’s build these houses, put air conditioning in them and we will live in comfort 24/7. We’ll go outside if we have to, but if we do, we’ll get rugged up. If it’s cold or if it’s in summer, we’ll put sunscreen and hats on and sunglasses. We will never expose our body to the natural frequencies in which we were designed to live.”

We sat indoors, sit in front of a computer all day. I do a lot of that. I’ve heard the expression sitting is the new smoking. I got a standing desk but I don’t use it enough. It’s usually in the sitting configuration and I don’t go out much. I don’t see a lot of the sun and I don’t touch the ground with my bare feet hardly ever. That’s also important, the grounding to the Earth thing. I know these things. I know I should be doing them, but then I get caught up with the busyness of life and deadlines and client work and so forth. Then I realize, “That week flew fast.” If I don’t have appointments with my trainer to go to the gym and meet him there, I won’t go to the gym because I’m always full up with work. I’m sure that some of our audience can relate to this.

I hear you. I was there. When you get cancer, when you have a heart attack, when you have some neurodegenerative disease, your thyroid goes and other diseases manifest, it becomes a priority. You and your audience need to make a decision. What we have learned with mitochondria is the effects are nonlinear. It’s not a gradual process where you feel a little bit worse then you get sick. You will just one day wake up and you will have Hashimoto’s or you’ll have an autoimmune or you’ll have some serious heart attack or you have pain that becomes cancer. It won’t happen gradually. It will happen instantly. If you lose your health, you lose everything.

“He who has his health has a thousand wishes. He who doesn’t has only one.” I remember Joe Polish sharing that quote.

I don’t want people to be where I was. I want you to change your lifestyle. You don’t have to do it every day, but you have to put nature as a priority, not as a secondary.

You built up a very successful large business. You don’t have to share any numbers, but I’m guessing it’s a significant eight-figure business. Would you have been able to build it to that degree if you rejigged your priorities along the lines of what you are focused on now?

At the time, no because I didn’t know what I know now. I’m starting a global company again. This time I’m doing it from home. Technology has allowed us to do things that we could never do before. When I started in 1995, we didn’t have a mobile phone, let alone Skype and Zoom that we’re using now to communicate across the world for free. Back then I couldn’t but now, I definitely could. I would suggest to people that we have to prioritize a couple of things. The first thing is we’d like to get up early as entrepreneurs. That’s who we are. Make sure you see the sunrise. I don’t care if it’s five minutes, but if you can see the sunrise or just the morning sun, if there’s a building blocking it, that will really help. All those signals from the sun tell your body what to do. This is important. How does a tomato know when to ripen? The sun tells it. The sun sends similar signals to us that communicates with all the photoreceptors through our skin and our eyes. It tells our mitochondria what to do. The mitochondria tell the body on how to function, which keeps our DNA working properly. Do that.

I will not work in a city anymore. The non-native EMFs are these natural electromagnetic frequencies from the sun. You mentioned the grounding, which is a Schumann resonance from the Earth which regulates your electrons. That’s why you want to be barefoot walking on the grass in the morning. When you see the sun or at the beach, it’s better but the park is fine. I wouldn’t work in the city now because I have a little EMF meter and I test what’s going on. The levels of artificial frequencies we have in our cities are now at levels that our biology can no longer handle. They are contrary to health. A lot of people think this EMF, wireless, Bluetooth stuff, we’ve been told it’s not a problem. Everything’s fine. That’s not true. I thought that and remember, I’m an environmental scientist.

If you lose your health, you lose everything. Click To Tweet

I thought this stuff was not a biological problem. I dug deep and I wrote a book about it called In The Dark, which you can buy and read. The number one book for the naysayers out there, for the professional scientists, for the medical people and even those who want to listen to an expert is called Going Somewhere. It’s by a guy called Andrew Marino. He’s the number one researcher in the world. He spent 50 years of his life studying this. He worked under a brilliant scientist, one of America’s very best scientists, Robert O. Becker, who was his right-hand man in the early days. He wrote a lot of books around how electricity works within the body. We are literally photo-electronic beings. We are not just a bag of chemicals. We are both.

You need to read that book. He then became a lawyer and once you read it, it will change your mind forever. The other thing is how do you feel after being in a corporate indoor environment all day? Do you leave refreshed and feeling great? No, you feel like crap. You just don’t admit it because you got used to it. When you go to the beach or go for a walk in nature, how do you feel? You feel wonderful. It’s because we’re designed with natural frequencies and we’re not designed for these artificial frequencies. A little bit of them we can cope with. It’s not as if you’re going to get instant problems. If you swim in it all day as I did for 25, 30 years, then you’re pretty much going to get some mitochondrial dysfunction.

I see it all the time in corporate people. My personal trainer does a lot of work with younger males, helping them not just with physical but also with mental. I said, “I bet all your patients are corporate people and none of them are tradesmen.” He said, “How did you know that?” I said, “Tradesmen work outside. They’re in the sun all day. They’re the guys who had the worst diet. They drink too much. They smoke all day, yet they don’t get sick, particularly mental illnesses.” You and I want to have full mental clarity. We want to be as sharp as we can. We want to be the best we can be. You can’t do that swimming in these artificial frequencies. At home, what I’m talking to you now is an Ethernet-cabled computer. There is no wireless in my house. I do not use Bluetooth.

One of the best examples to understand these frequencies is to understand meditation. I’m sure you’ve probably had a couple of meditation people on the podcast. It’s very useful to calm your mind as a relax and stress management strategy. Your brain works between 0.5 hertz and 30 hertz in the different brain states you have. You start off at Beta, then the Alpha, get into Theta and then Delta. That’s 0 to 30 Hertz. A mitochondrial frequency run at 100 Hertz. Why would anyone put a Bluetooth earbud in their ears that run at 2.4 billion hertz and think that’s not going to cause a problem? I can’t understand why anyone would do that. They do because they don’t know.

If you look at the warning signs in the RF, you can go into your iPhone or any of these phones. They all have warnings, “Do not touch the phone.” It doesn’t say that. It says, “Keep it a few millimeters away from your body.” That’s what it says. Yet people put 2.4 billion hertz earbuds into their ears, right next to their brain and wonder why we have all these neurodegenerative diseases. Why we have suicide rates now of 19 to 25-year-olds as the number one cause of death now? This is ridiculous. Why are kids getting diabetes? The frequencies they’re living in now aren’t what they’re designed to be. We need to switch over and start managing it.

I’m into technology. I sold my first company, which was an analytical technology company for $5 million. I love technology. I love that I can talk to you, Stephan, on the other side of the world and we can have a great conversation and people can listen in. I love it. It’s great. Why would I give up technology? Not in your life am I giving up my iPhone. Not in your life am I giving up my computer, I just want to manage it. I want to minimize my exposures, just like electricity. We use 240 volts in Australia, not 110. What do we do to stop it? We put the wires behind walls. We put electrical plugs into the outlet so the kids don’t stick things in them and we put in an automatic switch on our electrical box, so it cuts off automatically when something goes wrong. We live with this hazard 24/7. We just learn how to manage it. That’s what I’m advocating for people to do now is minimize their exposure to these frequencies and maximize their natural EMF. You can build a massive business right here, right now. I’m living proof. I’m going to build a global company based on this information and with some products. I’m going to do it from a spare room in my house.

One of those products is an EMF meter. It’s a little hand-held device, which you gave me one of. I was surprised to find that a lot of my devices, even when they’re on airplane mode are still emitting EMF radiation in the yellow and sometimes in the red zone. If I turn my iPhone on airplane mode, I’m still dousing myself with EMF radiation. That’s because airplane mode still enables by default the Wi-Fi. It’s connecting to Wi-Fi even though it’s not connecting to the cellular network. That needs to get switched completely to full airplane mode, no Bluetooth and no Wi-Fi. Then the meter shows a more reasonable level, but then also my laptop is emitting EMF and I use Wi-Fi. I don’t have everything all wired up so that I’m using Ethernet.

We are literally photo-electronic beings. We are not just a bag of chemicals.

When you presented at Genius Network, I remember Dr. Ben Lynch, who I respect a lot, he chimed in. He said, “This is not BS. This is real. My family is also a wired household. We do not have wireless in the house.” This isn’t crackpot stuff like tin foil hat stuff. This is real and it’s epidemic what we’re suffering as a society in terms of diseases that were not a big problem in the past. We have created for ourselves a society full of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure and all that stuff that you were talking about, including a lot of things that you suffered from. It’s severe and we’ve got to do something drastic, especially with the sweeping changes coming around like going from 4G, LTE, to 5G and everything. There are a lot of implications here. The closer it gets to your body, the more the effect. It’s like a geometric impact.

It’s called the Inverse Square Law. A rule of thumb is you double the distance, you half the dose. If your iPhone is a meter away from you, let’s say three feet away with a headset or earbuds that are connected by wire. The last part of the wire is an ear tube. That’s what I use. You’re not leaning the wire over your head, there’s an air gap. Then I’m getting very minimal exposure. I make all my phone calls using a wired headset or wired earbuds and that’s fine. Your exposure is very normal. It’s not going to cause any major problem. What we have that scares me the most is we’re hell-bent on everything being smart, smart appliances, smart meters and smart cities.

We’re rolling out what they’re calling the Internet of Things, which are these Wi-Fi-enabled gadgets, whether it’s Alexa, a new washing machine or a new toaster. All the appliances in your house now come ready made with these chips in them. Many of those appliances, if you take that chip out, the appliance no longer works. They want to track all your energy use and they want to regulate you. I’m not going to go into all the control and privacy issues that that relates to. All I’m concerned about is that we’re going from having Wi-Fi and Bluetooth in a few devices to having every appliance with one of these chips. It’s insane. The levels that people are going to live with without knowing are going to be so high that eventually, they’re going to have some mitochondrial dysfunction.

That’s why I want everyone to have a Mito Meter because you don’t know because it’s invisible. You can’t hear it. You can’t feel it. You can’t taste it. Some people can. There is a growing group of the population that have this disease called electro hypersensitivity. Like people that are allergic to peanuts, they’re allergic to these non-native electromagnetic fields. They can’t do anything. Their life is tragic and everyone thinks it’s in their head. It’s not. It’s a real disease. I’ve met these people. They are literally allergic to modern society in a way.

Is this related to the fact that some people get migraines when they’re under fluorescent lights?

Yes. Don’t forget the artificial lights are the biggest problem we had. With the rollout of 5G and the Internet of Things, the wireless devices are probably going to be a bigger problem. Artificial light, we should talk about that a little bit because what do you do in the office? You’ve got these fluorescent lights above your head and your whole body is being exposed. If you’ve got clothes on, your skin won’t be exposed. We wear these blue blocking glasses. Everyone might have seen the red ones that you wear at night, but they’ve now got some good technology that blocks about 30% to 50% of the LED range, which is most harmful, which is around 455 nanometers.

The great thing about these blue blocking lenses is they don’t disrupt color and you have perfect vision. If you’re a graphic designer or someone who’s doing digital drawings or spending a lot of time on the computer, you don’t have to have the red ones or the yellow ones which distort your ability to see. That’s something I’d be wearing. I’d also wear a hat. You do everything you were told to do outside, to do inside and the opposite. If I was to turn the lights on at all in my office, I have natural windows and I can open them and have natural light. I’d wear a hat because the receptors in your eye, a lot of them at the very top of your eye. Some of the glasses don’t block light coming in through over the eyebrow. I wear a baseball cap and protect my eyes that way.

You have to put nature as priority, not as a secondary. Click To Tweet

When I was in the office, I would go out. We used to call it smoko breaks in the old days. We even go out for a cigarette. Now we call them sun breaks. You just go out and spend ten minutes in the sun and then for lunch, go over to the local park if there’s one around, take your shoes off and let yourself unleash in the sun. Let your body know that, “Yes, I’m back in where I’m meant to be.” You’ll find that 45 minutes of tech exposure is ameliorated with fifteen minutes of nature exposure. Nature’s always going to be better for you. It’s three to one more powerful. If you can get some breaks when you’re working in a city office, it would be helpful.

The other thing I would do in the city is I would do float tanks. I know everyone’s going, “What tanks? Why float tanks?” There are a couple of reasons. Water is a natural Faraday cage. A Faraday cage is a metal cage you put around yourself to stop any frequencies coming in. Water is a natural Faraday cage and the great thing about float tanks is it takes away all sensory perception. We are overdosed. Our sensors are getting freaked out by all these frequencies, not even the ones you feel. You can’t feel this stuff. If you spend half an hour or fifteen minutes in a float tank, it gives your body a break. Make sure you can handle it and you’re not claustrophobic. Turn the lights off because they all have blue lights in the artificial lights in the tank. Hopefully, the manufacturers will start putting in the near infrared and red lights, which are great because they mimic the morning sunrise. The morning sunrise is infrared and red. The UV doesn’t appear until it gets to about eight to ten degrees in the sky. It depends on where you are, but the rule of thumb is it’s an hour after sunrise. You don’t want the artificial light in your float tank. That will give your body a rest. We think this is going to be a very good strategy for people living in cities. Just do that twice a week to give your body a break.

I highly endorse going to float tanks. I had a profound spiritual experience in a float tank at Just Float in Pasadena. It’s powerful to turn off all of the senses and go inward and be receptive and not have an agenda or anything. It was powerful. When you are outside, what if you’re wearing sunglasses? I’ve heard that’s not a good thing.

It’s the worst thing to do. That’s odd. Everyone’s going to go, “I can’t get out without the sunglasses.” I can hear them all complaining now. I was the same. I wear sunglasses more than I wear underpants. I was addicted to them. It was always you grab your keys, your wallet and your sunglasses. I would not leave the house without my sunglasses. I live in a very sunny country. Apart from the Sahara desert, we are probably one of the most plentiful sunshine in the world. We were told that you must wear sunglasses or you’re going to get blind. That was the message we got as kids so we automatically wear sunglasses.

What people don’t understand is that we have all these receptors in our eyes. We have UV receptors in our eyes. We are designed to take UV light inside our eyeballs. This is part of the biophysics we talk about. We have UV receptors in our eyes. Why are we putting something between the sun and our eyes if they’ve got receptors designed to accept those particular frequencies? It doesn’t make any sense. I have not worn sunglasses for three years. There were two exceptions because I don’t want people to get eye damage. Exception number one is if I’m fishing particularly in the morning and the sun is beating off the glassy sea. I want to see that kingfish that I want to get up before the sharks get it. I wear polarized sunglasses. One, so I can see the fish and get it out of the water as quick as possible but two, because the glare is too much.

The second time I’d wear sunglasses is skiing. You don’t want to go snow blind. It’s the same reflecting. It’s probably worse with snow. While you’re skiing, wear them. When you’re on the lift going up, take them, put them on the top of your head and get some natural light into your eyes while you’re doing that. Put them down when you’re focused on looking at the ground so you don’t hit a tree or something. Those are the two exceptions. Other than that, you will never wear sunglasses again. If you are saying, “It’s too glary,” wear a hat. The hat will stop the glare. That’s why you got the sun visor in your motor vehicle for. That’s the same with the hat. It can block most of the direct sunlight.

In The Dark: New Ways to Avoid the Harmful Effects of Living in a Technologically Connected World

In the morning, for those going, “You told us to watch the sun in the morning.” I’m only telling you to watch the sunrise. That’s what I’m telling you to watch. I’m not telling you to watch when the sun comes above the horizon because I don’t want anyone staring at a UV sun. There’s no UV for at least half an hour, usually more than that but you’re safe about half an hour. One of the tricks someone taught me is look between the horizon in the sun, but below it a little bit or look to the side. Don’t stare at the sun during the middle of the day. That is stupid. When it comes to sunburn, everyone goes, “What do I get sunburned?” The reason we get a sunburn is that a lot of us are born in the Northern European heritage. We think we can walk into the sun after being inside for a week, but pale white and we think we can be in the sun for an hour and be safe.

We can’t, because our sun hasn’t got what they call a callus. We have a natural topological callus in our skin. The number one sun lotion that nature gives free is the morning sun. The morning sun improves skin callus. You’re purposely designed it so that you can be in the strongest sun during the day. Nature is amazing when you understand how it works. The morning sun is not just about circadian biology that we talked about before. It’s a natural sunscreen. You’ve got to do it gradually. You don’t want to get sunburned, not because it gives you cancer. It’s because it hurts and you can’t sleep. Don’t use sunscreen, just use clothing, we call them a rashie in Australia, or sit under the tree.

Our native people of Australia, the Aboriginals, they are black. These guys are jet black and they don’t sit outside in the middle of the day. They know that the sun is too strong. This time, be sensible. For those who think, “This guy’s full of it.” I thought I was as well when I learned this. I trace back the original science. Remember, I’m a double degree scientist. I’ve gotten on it. I have to know what’s going on. I trace back the original paper that brought about this craziness about having a war on the sun. Now babies get jaundice when they’re born and they use artificial light to improve that condition. We’re using UV lamps on baby mice and the mice developed eye cancer. They wrote this paper up and said, “We can’t use UV anymore directly for any of these treatments because it causes cancer.”

Then the medical community decided, “The sun got UV, so you can’t go in the sun.” They forgot to tell you the sun also got all the colors of the rainbow. That Pink Floyd album, the prism on The Dark Side of the Moon, you can see all those different colors we have in a rainbow, plus it has red and infrared light as well. It’s perfectly balanced. 42% of all sunlight is red and infrared. The UV is balanced with the red, so it’s not going to harm you. In fact, there are literally tens of thousands of published studies that show that sunlight is super beneficial for nearly every condition. There have been three meta-analyses done. Actually, I think it’s six now because no one believes it can be true, that’s all course modality. That means that sunlight reduces every disease. The incident of every disease is lowered by going in sunlight. It’s very important, so no sunglasses.

I’m thinking about hospital environments and nursing homes. I would implicate the nursing home that my mother was in her death. She ended up getting pneumonia and then she got sent off to a hospital. She aspirated in the early morning, trying to pull out the feeding tube. It was horrible. It’s all the opposite of what you were describing of the things that we need for our health, the natural light, the sun, the grounding, our feet touching the Earth. None of that’s available in a hospital environment or nursing home. It’s terrible. It’s not a healthy environment. It’s a place where you go to die.

I’ll tell you a couple of stories. The most powerful one is I spend a fair bit of time with what I call quantum doctors. They are allopathically trained for medical doctors or in training who have now woken up to this quantum electrodynamics. This is a technical word for biophysics and how the body works with all these frequencies from the sun and the receptors and explaining in deep detail. It will blow your mind. Any disease you have, type the disease and the words “Dr. Jack Kruse” in the same search and you will get information that will blow you away.

The main point I want to talk about is I had dinner with three young medical doctors at a quantum medical retreat in Mexico before Genius Network. I can’t repeat exactly what they told me because it’s in confidence. I will say that the environment in which they find themselves during training, the way in which they are taught, they can’t do their job. They signed an oath not to do any harm. They are so conflicted because they know this new information and they can’t implement it because they will fail their degree. They broke down and they were in tears. They were so upset because all these hospitals have all the latest gadgets and all these latest gadgets have wireless frequencies. Their work environment is literally killing them. I said that word. I went, “Really? That bad?” They said, “Jason, you have no idea.” All their fellow students, and these are teenagers in their early twenties, they are young medical people and they’re saying, “They’re all sick. They look at us and we’re healthy and they can’t understand why. We start to tell them and they go, “That’s the opposite of what we’re being taught.””

They’re saying, “You need to understand this other stuff as well.” Whether it’s the young doctors at university and hospital systems, whether it’s our kids in school. Schools are now taught via computer in Australia and these computers are wireless. They’re not Ethernet connected. They’re inside under artificial light. Now we’ve got record rates of suicide in young people. It’s deep science and we can send you the information. You can join our community where we’re going to talk about all this stuff because we want to prove it. The science is there, it’s new. A lot of people haven’t read it and they all poo-poo it, “You’re crazy. You’re a tinfoil hat.” We’re not. We’re every type guys who go to the foody and we drink beers with our mates. We’re normal people who run successful businesses. We’re not making this stuff up. This is not something that I would say if it wasn’t important. We have solutions.

Remember, we are not anti-tech, we’re just about safe technology. We can now make it safe for at least ourselves. I don’t know what we can do for the broader population. Dr. Jack Kruse’s prediction, he’s saying, “The incidence of these diseases we’re going to see is going to skyrocket in the next three to five years as we roll out more of this technology.” It may get to a point because I mention all the time that I need to leave Sydney and go move to the country because the artificial frequency is too high. They’re going to be fine in my house. I live in a free-standing house next to a galley with lots of trees. Many people in the city live in apartment blocks. Everyone got too many devices and it may be too much.

Technology has allowed us to do things that we could never do before. Click To Tweet

I know that Luke Storey, who’s a friend of mine and has his own podcast about biohacking, he interviewed Dr. Jack Kruse. It was a great episode. Luke is going to move away out of the city when 5G comes because it’s coming to all of LA. We’re one of the first cities that are going to be getting that. It’s frightening. As options get taken away from us, like incandescent bulbs are no longer an option for most of us. We have to buy LED or we could get halogen, which would be better than LED. Incandescent is not an option anymore from my understanding.

You can buy them, but they are sold as animal lights or reptile lights. You’ve got to search for them. We will see two things happen. Maybe LED will get a lot better. There are pretty smart engineers out there. When we give them the right specifications, we’re amazing people. We can do amazing stuff and I’m very confident that our engineers and our scientists will find all the solutions so we could live a technology life because I love productivity. I love efficiency. I’m not going to give that up. We just got to tell the engineers, “How about we design it in these specifications rather than the ones we’re using now?” To the parents out there, I want to mention one technology that we saw at A360. It’s the eSports and the revolution coming in virtual reality and augmented reality and the new headsets that are coming out.

It’s totally amazing. I get it. It’s incredible. These kids are getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to play computer games. It’s a massive industry with pop concerts. All the technology they’re using, especially the wireless headsets, they’re going to use 60 gigahertz frequency. This is the 5G because they need the speed. They can’t have the latency because the signals are going to upload quicker because you’re now playing live games and so forth. Then they’ve got that blue lights staring them straight in the eyeball. That technology, there’s no way I would use that more than a couple of minutes. I’m concerned about that. I didn’t get a chance to speak to the other people. People say that I’m a Luddite, but I attend A360, the number one futuristic conference in the world.

How long have you been going?

Six years.

That was my first year. For our audience who aren’t familiar with A360, it’s Abundance 360. It’s put on by Peter Diamandis, the author of Bold and Abundance, two fantastic bestseller books. It’s all future tech stuff that’s coming that’s going to completely revolutionize everything. It’s like you get a front row seat to what’s coming in the next three to five to even ten years. Then you can build a business around these opportunities that you get a sneak peek into. That’s Abundance 360 and it’s $15,000 to attend that three-day event.

The people there are amazing as well. I’m sure if we spoke to the engineers making those devices, they could fix it. We could use different frequencies. We could use different cabling. We could do different things to get it done. We’ve been told by industry and government that none of these frequencies harm you unless they heat you up too much. It’s called thermal. That is not true. It’s never been true. We’ve known about it for 30, 40 years. It’s all been hushed up and no money is being given to anyone to do any decent research other than to show us it’s not a problem. It’s horrific. We need to reach out to these engineers and the scientists reading this. There’s a great opportunity for you to fix this problem and I want you to start thinking about it because we’re about to see an epidemic. We already got it. We’ve already got serious diseases, but now we’re getting it into our kids like it’s a joke. We need to step it up and start reinventing the wheel.

We’re designed with natural frequencies and not for these artificial frequencies.

Let’s go to a lightning round and cover a few topics we didn’t get to yet. What is it about oysters that makes them so healthy or helpful?

DHA. Omega-3 fatty acids you’ve heard about is called DHA, which is the most important omega fatty acid. You can only get it through seafood. You can’t get it from a pill because it gets converted in manufacturing to ALA. The number one source of DHA is oysters. I never liked them. I like them now, but I took them as medicine. I ate three dozen a week. If you don’t like oysters, you’ve got all your other crustaceans, which are high in DHA like lobsters, crabs, shrimp, prawns and cold-water fish. Those who are scared about mercury in Fukushima, it’s a non-issue. There’s no mercury in oysters, even in the sharks and the top predator fish, there may be too much. I wouldn’t eat them but most fish are fine. It’s such a scam.

I would eat as much seafood as you can. It should be the number one protein source. Also the minerals, the selenium and the iodine and all those essential minerals. Why does the body need it? We can’t make DHA. We have a compound chemist in our brain. That compound chemist can make everything pretty much that we get as a supplement. That’s why I don’t take supplements because our body can make it all. As long as I get the right frequencies and the right water, I could go on all day, but I’m sure you’ve got more questions.

The right water, let’s talk about that briefly. What is deuterium-depleted water and why do we need to be concerned about that?

The number one takeaway is it’s the water you make, not the water you drink. Our mitochondria might destitute in depleted water. When our mitochondria are dysfunctional, we can’t make it. When we can’t make it, they get sick and they die off. Too many die off, we get diseases. Too many mitochondria and cells die off, we die. If your body can’t make deuterium-depleted water, what are you going to do to fix it? One is you’ve got to do what I just said. Go to nature and minimize your technology. Your body can fix itself. You need to have more good fats in your diet, whether that’s avocado or whether it’s bacon, it doesn’t matter.

Fats are better for our mitochondria to make water and energy than carbohydrates and grains. The medical option is to drink deuterium-depleted water, which is hard to get. We are looking at building plants in America to make this medicine. It’s not really medicine, it’s just water. Jack calls it the most powerful medicine in the world. When you think about what water generally is, what’s in your arm when you come out of surgery? A saline drip. Hydration is important. If you use deuterium-depleted water, you have a much better effect. It’s a podcast in itself, Stephan, I’ll leave it there. That’s the water.

It’s very important that our audience looks into getting some deuterium-depleted water. At least become more educated around this water that our cells make. It’s great to take in alkaline water and live spring water and that sort of thing. Those are great options, much better than drinking Aquafina or something. We need to become much more educated than that.

The number one sun lotion is nature’s free morning sun. Click To Tweet

The number one thing for water is fluoride. Fluoride has an anti-dielectric effect. We’re not going to talk about redox potential and get them into all the sides, but our cells have a natural electrical charge. When it’s fully charged, nothing can get into our cell. No contaminants can get into our cells. They are getting excreted naturally throughout detoxification systems. The redox must be maintained high. Fluoride destroys redox potential. Other things do as well, like all these frequencies we’re talking about. Make sure your water doesn’t have fluoride. What I personally do, I drink spring water. If I do have a filtration system, I will make sure it has a remineralize RO to the end, which is what you need to use to get rid of fluoride. It takes everything out so you’ve got to put the minerals back in. That’s what I do for water.

RO stands for reverse osmosis. Where do you get air tubes to replace those unhealthy AirPods that we stick in our ears that are wireless?

Type in air tube headset and there will be several manufacturers. Make sure you get a comfortable one. Just type it into Google or Safari or whatever search engine you like.

We covered in different previous episodes different aspects of things like light pollution and junk light. That was covered in the Chris Keane episode. I interviewed Brian Hoyer about EMF and how to ameliorate your environment from EMF exposure. If somebody wanted to work with you, learn from you, how do they do that? Also to get these awesome, handy Mito Meters or the EMF meters that tell you what your EMF exposure is with these different devices all around us.

They can go to and my email is You can reach out. We’ll be launching in America, the UK and Canada. Products are available in Australia, but we’re setting up companies as we speak and we should be ready to go. Thanks for having me on the show. We do have a closed Facebook group called Mitochondriacs that you can join if you want to get into the technical discussions and learn more. I want to leave you with one thing, we now know how to reverse chronic disease.

It’s time to take action to do something with that information. It is out there and information that’s not implemented will not save you. Thank you, Jason. Thank you to our audience. Take some action and we’ll catch you on the next episode.

Important Links:

Checklist of Actionable Takeaways

?Research more about the protocols based on mitochondria and its DNA which can help reverse virtually every chronic disease if done properly.

?Get up early and make sure I get as much morning sunrise as I can. The morning sunrise is critical for my health as explained by Hal Elrod in his book Miracle Morning.

?Manage my living environment and change my lifestyle. Put nature as a priority. Expose my body to the natural frequencies in which we were designed to live.

?Practice grounding which helps regulate my electrons by walking barefoot on the grass in the morning.

?Become as mentally sharp as I can be by minimizing my exposure to artificial frequencies and maximizing my exposure to natural EMF.

?Spend half an hour or fifteen minutes in a float tank to give my body a break. It takes away all sensory perception since water is a natural Faraday cage.

?Introduce more DHA and Omega-3 fatty acids by eating more oysters, lobsters, crabs, shrimp, prawns, cold-water fish, and other seafood. Our body needs DHA but we can’t make it, so I should eat as much seafood as I can.

?Minimize my exposure to technology and have more good fats in my diet so that my body can naturally fix and heal itself.

?Buy and read Jason’s book called In The Dark, as well as Going Somewhere by Andrew Marino to know more about how electricity works within the body.

?Visit Jason’s website,, and join his Facebook group called Mitochondriacs to learn more about EMF and how to reverse chronic disease.

About Jason Bawden-Smith

Jason Bawden-Smith is a successful entrepreneur, author and speaker. He has founded four companies during his business career, including one of largest and most successful environmental consultancy companies in Australia. But financial success came at a great cost. Jason developed 20 chronic diseases and cured himself by going to the beach and eating oysters—- okay it was a little more complex but not that much. His moon shot goal is to reduce illness in 100 million people by 2030 but first he had to figure out how to heal his own body.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.


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