In this Episode
- [00:09]Stephan introduced his next guest, Joe McQuillen, who started as a salesman, to an executive manager and had an impressive career as a mortgage broker. Among his many charitable associations, Joe sits on the board of ln Balance Ranch Academy, a boarding school dedicated to helping troubled teens with addiction.
- [01:42]Stephan wants to start by asking Joe how he got from a place of grief, loss, or despair of losing his son to being motivated to write an entire book about his experience.
- [07:24]Joe talks about Answers About the Afterlife, an outstanding book that answers his questions about soul and spirit.
- [13:16]Joe speaks about his search to connect with his son at a different level now that he’s on the other side.
- [22:54]Stephan loves what Joe said about raising vibration and getting into more of an elevated receptive place and talks about as you become more benevolent, the synchronicities increase.
- [25:39]Joe is interested in researching the violet flames for his book three and talks about being proud of both books that he finished.
- [33:21]Stephan says that people focus on the person’s last days or the type of transition death it was instead of the person’s life and legacy.
- [36:19]Stephan recently learned the meaning of apocalypse, which is not the end of the world, but it’s from the Greek apokalypsis, which means thinning the veils.
- [36:42]Joe and Stephan discuss that God hears our prayers, but not every prayer is answered in the way we want.
- [39:56]Stephan talks about Bibliomacy and its difference from Shufflemancy.
- [42:58]Joe answers Stephan’s question about how it was to hear God’s voice explaining that he didn’t take his son and it was a free will on Christopher’s part.
- [47:23]Stephan shares that there’s the witching hour and also a very auspicious time to receive dreams
- [50:58]Visit Joe McQuillen’s website to learn more about his story. Also, check out and read his books, My Search for Christopher on the Other Side, which tells the story of the journey of discovery, and We’re Not Done Yet, Pop, which takes his audience to the next level of discovery and awakening.
Joe, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Stephan, thank you for having me on. I sure do appreciate it.
I’d love to start with basically, how did you get from a place of grief, loss, or maybe even despair of losing your son to a place where you are galvanized and motivated to write an entire book about your experience and now a follow-up book?
It was all grief and grief still continues to this day, Stephan. Anybody who said that time heals all wounds hasn’t lost a child. It’s a constant companion. Over the years, I’ve acquired tools to cope and deal with the grief, but the grief is just part of your life now.
Let’s go back to the beginning, which is what happened. My son was a 21-year-old college student, a bit of a wild hair, my boy. He was home for Christmas break.
In January 2016, a dozen of his friends who were also home from school decided to go up to a buddy’s lake house in Lake Beulah about 1 ½ hour north of the North Shore of Chicago to celebrate their last Saturday night, kick up their heels, and have a little fun. That’s what they did. They went to a local pub for shots and pool—a dozen of them—they all went back to this kid, Scotty’s parent’s lake house in Beulah, and the party continued.
At 3 AM, Chris and three friends wandered outside, saw a boathouse, and did what a lot of 21-year-old boys would do. It’s like, what’s this next adventure? It was a perfect storm, unfortunately. They have a snoot full of alcohol, layered clothing, unlaced Timberland boots, and a lake partially frozen in January of a Wisconsin winter. Four boys jumped into a three-man canoe, paddled out, and none of them made it back.
I got a call. I was waiting for Christopher. I grew up in Buffalo, and we’re big Buffalo Bills fans. We were going to watch the game together the next day before he was getting ready to go to school—him, his brother, and I. I got a text from the kid who owns the lake house that said, “Mr. McQuillen, Christopher and three friends are missing.”
I jumped in my Jeep and headed up north, expecting to find him with a co-ed in somebody else’s lake house or in a boathouse sleeping off a hangover or whatever. Halfway up, I got a call from the uncle who said it was no longer a search but a recovery. All four boys have drowned.
I remember that day like it was yesterday.
You go into shock. I remember that day like it was yesterday. I’m looking out my window in my office. This office used to be Christopher’s bedroom. I’m in my home office and I can see looking out why I pulled into that house, looking through the great room with this huge, expansive picture window on the lake with emergency boats, flashing lights, divers, and pockets of people in the house—parents in one corner and the kids who would spend the wait night in the other corner all weeping, crying, and heartbroken for their lost friends.
I was completely shocked, but one thing did kick in before I even pulled into that house. Sixteen years before, I had seen a medium on a whim. The reading was, at best, interesting. I was getting ready to finish up and she said, “But your dad’s here.”
My dad had passed away. This was in 2000 and he passed away in 1988. She said, “Your dad’s here. He’s holding a caboose and he’s telling you about a railroad.”
If you look behind that bookcase, it’s a railroad lantern. My dad spent 40 years on the railroad. We were a railroad family. Every boy in the family worked in college on the railroad, and I stayed on as a brakeman. When dad was at Yardmaster, I would go to Yardmaster tower with him when I was a little kid and spend the night sleeping in a caboose futon before futons were futons. We were a railroad family.
That message that didn’t include the answers to the universe and didn’t include the numbers for the lottery just told me my old man was somewhere, and he reached out and told me he was somewhere. That was it. I filed that away.
You got to remember, this was in 2000 before Google searches and Facebook. My old man was just a regular guy. He wasn’t very special to me in my view, but noteworthy. If you looked up today, you couldn’t figure out what he did for a living.
It was a pretty impressive event that I didn’t use until finishing up that drive to Wisconsin. I thought, wait a minute. If Chris is gone and my old man is somewhere, then Chris is with him. That’s how the family rolls. We were a tribe, a big Irish Catholic family. That’s how we roll.
That itself, Stephan, is when I decided I needed to start a search. I needed to find out what was next. Where was he? Can I connect?
Remember, I had been a car dealer for many years. I’m not a naive guy. Look at me, the brush cut and broken nose, I don’t look like a guy that’s going to have candles, sage, and chakra charts, but that’s exactly what I do. I’m also a guy who likes to cut the edge and get the advantage.
I figured, wait a minute. Let’s find out—I don’t even know the term metaphysical—if this metaphysical stuff was real. Let’s delve into it. If it’s not, Stephan, let’s cross it off the list.
I got a lot of help from Bob Olson’s book. He was an investigator in LA who wrote a book as a skeptic and ended up being a convert. That began my search.
Answers About the Afterlife, is that the one?
That’s the one. It’s an outstanding book, and it gave me a lot of good answers. It also answered some questions I had about soul versus spirit. It was a very insightful book. I read that. I read Bridging Both Realms. I read everything I could get my hands on, Stephan, and I showed up at spirit circles and presentations of mediums.
The next day after his drowning, I reached out to that same medium. Her name is Nancy Myer. She was here in the Midwest, but she had relocated to Arizona and I ran her down. She’s in Surprise, Arizona. I saw her a couple of years ago in person again for the first time in many years. She told me things about the accident that I didn’t know until I got the police report or the coroner’s report. She told me how it happened. She told me about his state of mind. She told me a lot of things. It was an incredible event.
I had another session with her a few weeks later, and then I got greedy. I’m a believer, but I wanted to look in the eyes of somebody who’s seeing and talking to my son.
Unbeknownst to me, I went into a webpage that had critical reviews of evidentiary mediums according to your location. I found this guy, Andrew Anderson, 40 minutes from my house in the western suburbs of Chicago.
It’s funny. It wasn’t until I was finishing up the second book and I went back to that web page that I realized that web page is actually Bob Olson’s, the guy whose book really helped me get on the path. But there are no coincidences. Coincidence is God showing off. There are no coincidences.
I booked a time with this guy, Andrew Anderson. I was going to go out in the morning and then head into the office. Before I did, I did two things. I’d ordered Shamrock Seats.
I talked about in the first book that I actually moved Christopher’s grave over one plot. We buried him on January 8, 2016. Like it is now, it’s below freezing here today. The ground was covered in snow.
We bought a few and chose a plot to put him in, but when the snow melted, he was buried next to another couple, a couple called the Sheridans.
I got to tell you, I’m a little territorial by nature. I was livid that my kid was buried next to somebody else that made him look like he was somebody else’s kid. That was infuriating to me. I actually stomped my feet, wrote a check, and moved him over one plot. That plot is where I will be eventually buried. I moved that plot over.I live to please my God and make my son proud. Click To Tweet
Here it is in the summer of 2016, because they just reinterred him, the ground was loose. I ordered some Shamrock Seats because I wanted to plant them around his grave, which I did. I went that day and planted them around his grave.
Before I left my house to go to the grave and then go to Andrews, I put on this bracelet. It’s something that Chris had given me when we were in Disney World. It’s got a lot of beads and it says Dad on it. It’s got goofy in the class, which could be an indication to anybody talking to your audience. I put that on. Like I did here, I went and saw Andrew. I had it under my sleeve. Before I got to Andrew, I put that on, stopped at the grave, put the Shamrock Seats, talked to Chris a little bit, and then headed out to see Andrew.
I went into his office. It was a typical mediums office with big, pretty crystals and posters of balloons and spirits. It was a warm and lovely medium office. He asked me to bring a picture. He didn’t ask me for my name or my background. He asked me to bring a picture of Chris. I brought a couple of Chris celebrating something and having fun. He said, “Chris is here and he is beautiful. He looks like Brad Pitt.”
He said, “But I’m going to tell you there were some moments of sadness and darkness in which we knew. He had moments of depression, he abused alcohol, and it worried us. Despite the party boy’s demeanor, there was some sadness.” He said, “Your family on the other side was together last night for something. What was it?” He said, “It was an anniversary of some kind.”
That was the moment that I went from believing to knowing.
It was Sally and I’s 25th wedding anniversary the night before. We’ve barely celebrated it, which is six months after we lost our boy. We had a romantic dinner like in the Lady and the Tramp.
Then, he said, “Chris acknowledges you’re wearing the bracelet he gave you. Christopher acknowledges that you were at his grave planting something recently today. What was that?”
That was the moment, Stephan, that I went from believing to knowing. Andrew and I are friends to this day. I see him occasionally as a medium. We’re pals. I’ll come out and he’ll have spirit circles which I don’t love, but I’ll come out and participate because he’s a friend. I did a presentation at Madame Zuzu’s, which is an event of the guy who owns Smashing Pumpkins. He has a restaurant and does spiritual stuff. I did a presentation and Andrew came.
That was the moment six months in that I went from believing to knowing that they’re on the other side. They can connect with us. We can’t unring the bell that took him from me, but what are you going to do about it? I kicked my search into higher gear at that point.
Your search to connect with him at a different level now that he’s on the other side?
It’s got to be a different level. I prefer this level, to be honest. Stephan. I would give up all the metaphysical knowledge, spiritual insights, books, and interviews to have one round of golf with my boy or watch a layoff game with pizza and hang out. But you don’t have that choice.
People say to me all the time, ‘that’s not fair what happened to you.’ I said, “Listen, fair is where you go to ride the roller coaster and eat candy corn. Fair doesn’t fit into it.”
I will tell you one thing. The first three days, I came back after Christoper’s transition. I don’t like to use the word drowned and I don’t like the word die, but for the first three days, I’d get on my knees before I go to bed. Those days are full of grave plots, churches, readings, receptions, gravestones, markers, getting my youngest a suit, meeting the priests, and all of that stuff.
I just wanted God to know where we were, him and me.
His godfather was with me that entire week, but all of that stuff, I’d be finishing the day and just collapse. Before I do, I’d get on my knees as I’ve always done and I’d thank God for my family and for being sober. I’m 36 years sober. I say to God, we’re not good, God. We’re not good, you and me. You took my kid. I did this for three nights. I just wanted God to know where we were, him and me.
On the third night, I actually got feedback, which was nice. He said, ‘I didn’t take your son. His recklessness and free will caused him to come home early, and I welcomed him home. Remember, I lost a son too.’
At that moment, I knew early on that God wasn’t a chess master moving us around for his amusement, or I wasn’t paying for past sins by him taking my son. His exit points caused him to leave. His soul agreement—none of these things were in my vocabulary before January 3rd 2016—caused him to leave. I knew that God was the guy holding me up when I was making all these arrangements.
My relationship with God is really good especially since I know my son’s with Him. My son’s in the environment of the Creator, the source, the Yahweh, the Great Spirit—you put a name on it. It’s whoever created this deal that we’re in.
Every medium event, I started taking notes, and then halfway through, I started just recording them with my iPhone or recorder and transcribing them. I figured what I’m doing here is I’ll keep these. I’m an old man. I’m 65. But when I’m even older, I’d be sitting on a rocking chair reading these notes, smoking a cigar, and it’ll make me feel close to my son. That’s what I thought I was doing. He knew that I was putting it down for a manuscript.
I knew early on that God wasn’t a chess master moving us around for his amusement.
The anniversary of his transition is January 3, 2017. During this year, I’ve started getting up at 3 AM, just waking up, coming into the office, and meditating. I’ve learned to align my chakras, raise my consciousness, listen to the guided meditation, burn sage and candles, meditate on his picture, and all the things that you wouldn’t think a guy that looks like me would do. I would do this and I feel close to him. I’d love it. I would actually feel him around me or sense him.
On this day, on my desk was a legal pad and a pen for work. I started getting downloads after meditation. He said, “Pop, you’re not going to believe this. The colors, it’s beautiful. The love, the air is always warm. It’s air, but it’s love. It’s love air. The greens and purples are intense.” He said, “You’re not going to believe this.”
I’m writing it down. I’m thinking, holy cow. Have I left a reservation or what? I thought, okay, here we go. I started writing all this down. One thing he said to me is he said, “You got to let go of the resentment. I love Scotty. He was my friend. It wasn’t his fault.”
Scotty was the kid on the lake house. I had to be mad at somebody. In Irish Alzheimer’s, you forget everything but the grudges. I was holding onto this resentment. God came through and told me it wasn’t his fault. God and I were good, so now I had to be mad at these people on the lake house. He said, “Man, you can’t do that.” I said, sure, Chris, for you, I’ll let go of this resentment. Besides, when will I ever see Scotty again, right?
Flash forward 12 hours, Sally and I were going to meet at the grave at sundown, launch a Chinese lantern, hold hands, and celebrate our boy. That was the plan. The Greeks used to say that man plans and God laughs.
I’ve learned to align my chakras and raise my consciousness.
I’m running errands and doing things this day, and I got a text from one of his fraternity buddies who are like family to me. The kids, boys and girls, we go to all their weddings. I have a golf outing every year they’re part of. We have a reception. They’re always part of our lives. That’s something that’s special to me.
I got a text that said, “Mr. McQuillen, we’re all going to meet at the grave. A couple of us are going to meet at the grave at three-thirty in the afternoon if you could make it.” I figured that’d be great. I went and picked up my hockey cooler, threw some beers and Gatorade in it, grabbed a box of cigars, and figured a handful of kids and I will sit around and celebrate our friend and son.
When I pulled into the cemetery, there were 40 cars. There were cars packed, and there was no place to park. I got to the grave and there were 40 kids from his grammar school to middle school, to college, to high school all there to celebrate the first anniversary of Christopher’s crossing.
The first kid that I saw was Scotty which was amazing because now I got it. Not only did Chris want me to let go of this resentment because resentments will keep us sick and keep us in grief, but he knew that I was going to see him. Instead of ducking him or looking down, I was able to embrace Scotty and tell him I love him and that it wasn’t his fault. It could have been any place. It could have been at our house. It’s just that the throw of the dice had ended up there.
Those meetings with Chris continued to this day and every meeting is dictated exactly. Every download that he gave me was exactly as he gave it to me. We continued to this day. Yesterday at 3 AM, I had a session with him. I woke up at 3 AM, came in, did my thing, and got some amazing downloads from him about life, fear, taking care of things, and messages.
Every download that he gave me was exactly as he gave it to me.
I’ll give you an example from yesterday. I’m sitting there and I had closed the laptop. I had a second screen and everything was black. All of a sudden, it came on white, then went black again, then came on white. I wasn’t touching anything. The laptop was closed. The main screen shouldn’t have been flashing on and off.
He said, “Dad, I can help with things on my side.” An example is the screen just to let you know. He said, “We can help with things on our side, so start having a little more faith in us. That’s an impressive message from somebody on the other side.”
I’ve got the lights flashing and turning on spontaneously. The entire house lights up. With every light coming on, it’s never a dull moment.
Not once you open that door. I don’t quote scriptures. I’m not a religious cat. I got no issues with it. I think churches are great when nobody’s in there, but my spiritual places are the thin places that I’ve talked about. This office is a thin place.
I stole that term from John Holland. It’s actually an Irish term. He stole it from the old Celts, so I’m taking it back. Thin places are where the veil is thinnest between both worlds. This office is a thin place for me because Christopher enters here.
I’m not a medium. I don’t want to be a medium.
I’m not a medium. I don’t want to be a medium. Mediums tell me I am, but Stephan, I don’t want to see your grandmother or great-grandmother. I’m just doing this to connect with my boy. I love that I get input from him and family. I’m so gracious and grateful.
The bottom line is I believe I’ve been given this amazing gift, but I got to give it away to keep it. I can’t hoard this like Midas’ gold. If I do that, I think the connection gets cut or at least dissipated, and I’m not willing to do that.
I’ve been told because of who I am—a boots-on-the-ground kind of guy—that my task is to take this message to people. Parents need to know that their kids aren’t gone.
The brilliant Suzanne Giesemann wrote a book called Still Right Here. I steal that term all the time. I say, your kids are still right here, but there are some things you got to do to enhance the connection, like you and I rebooting. You got to do certain things to enhance the connection so that you can connect with it.
They’ve got to lower their energy level, and we’ve got to raise ours to get to a plane where we can connect. That’s on them, not the spirit. That’s on the people trying to connect with their kids. You can’t sit back on a couch and say nobody on the other side is connecting with me. What do you do to connect?
For our listener who doesn’t know what you alluded to when you said you and I rebooting, that was because our connection on the internet was not behaving. You are cutting out for me, so I just suggested we both reboot our computers and now it’s completely better.
Yeah, sometimes it takes a reboot. Definitely, I love what you said about raising your vibration and getting into more of an elevated receptive place. I love the morning ritual that you do. You’re aligning your chakras and all that. This is something that I just found really profound when I first heard it or read it. I forget where I got it from, but as you become more benevolent, the synchronicities increase.
That’s amazing. I wrote a story called Galley Song about a wonderful girlfriend of Christopher’s. She’s still part of our lives. She’s now a physician’s assistant in Arizona. He was at his best around her. She was an adorable gal.
She told us a story one time about how they were together in Arizona. Chris pulled over because he had seen a car pulled over, a van with a Latino family. They needed help. They ran out of gas.
She talked about how Chris felt like they had been friends forever. He ran, got them gas, came back, and filled it up. To this day including last night in a snowstorm.
When I see something like that, people in stress, I pull over. Once, I pulled over a guy on a bridge and a car and said, “Are you okay? Do you need help? Do you want to sit in my car?” He had a tow truck coming. He said, “No, I got gas, I’m good.”
I live my life two ways now, Stephan. That’s not how I lived my life before. I live my life to please my God and to make my son proud. I don’t look like a guy that would quote Haruki Murakami, but I’m going to.
He said, “Once the storm is over, you won’t remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive. You won’t even be sure whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what storms are all about.”
I got some catching up to do to get the good side going.
I’m not the same person I was prior to January 3rd, 2016. I wouldn’t have stopped on the bridge to help that guy. I wouldn’t do the things I do to make my son proud. But I do. It’s a little bit self-serving. It helps the connection. The truth of the matter is through all the research, we’re going to have a life review. I got some catching up to do to get the good side going.
I want to share something about that. We’re entering a different time. My understanding about this is that in this era and evolution of humanity for all of us, we can shed or release karma—these karmic debts and things that weigh us down that go back lifetimes.
They don’t need to continue to weigh us down. They don’t need to be repaid because there’s another way. Yes, the law of cause and effect is very real. It is universal. Karma is real. But there’s also something called the violet flame. The keeper of the violet flame is Saint Germain. If you have this intention to release karma and a request, ask and it is given.
If you feel like I don’t deserve to be in the light, I don’t deserve all the good fortune, and so forth, then you’re not going to get it. You’re sabotaging yourself. We are our own worst critics. We are the last to forgive ourselves usually.
If you just embrace this violet flame as if it’s a coat that you’re wearing and that you don’t need it to pay off these debts, that’s the old energy that was appropriate for that time. Now, we’re entering a New Age. I think that will feel very freeing for you.
I love that. That’s great. I wrote it down. I’m going to research violet flame right after I hang up with you because I need stuff for book three.
When I was finishing up the first book, I was really proud of it. I’m proud of both books. They’re both available on Amazon and there’s a web page, joemcquillen.net. My email is email@example.com if you want to reach out. If you’ve lost somebody, you need to talk, and you need to email, let’s connect. It’s what I’m supposed to do on this last lap around the track.
I was finishing up the first book, and I was proud of it. Chris told me he wanted me to finish it by Father’s Day of 2018, so I was. The manuscript was done by then.
But as I got to the end, I was feeling melancholy—an old-school term—that maybe this connection was going to diminish when this project was over. I was feeling a little sad.
Chris came through and said, “We’re not done yet, pop. We’re going to do this until you cross over.” That is, obviously, the title of the second book, but it also inspired me to know that this is now my life path. This is what I’m supposed to do in this last lap around.
You got to understand. I have a wonderful life, Stephan. I live a life beyond my wildest dreams. I’ve been fortunate and successful in business. I’ve got a wonderful extended family, wonderful McQuillens’ kids, a beautiful therapist wife whose first book is about to be edited, and two other kids on this side.
I don’t fear death. I know what’s on the other side. I know I get to spend it with my son Christopher because he told me.
I have been given much more than I certainly earn. I’m grateful for it, but if the time comes where God says, time to go, pal, I don’t fear death. I know what’s on the other side. I know I get to spend it with my son Christopher because he told me.
If it’s time to go, I’m good. I’m not ready to go, I still have work to do on this side, still. If all of a sudden, the message comes through your pitching tomorrow on the other side, let’s warm up. We’re going.
My sister, who was Christopher’s godmother, an amazing woman and one of my favorite people in the whole world, transitioned on February 6, 2019. She adored my boy and she adored me and was really close. I was with her the week before she transitioned. She had cancer. She was just a vibrant, wonderful woman.
She finally said, “I’m done. I tried all the treatments. I did it. I fought it for three or four years. I’m done. Here’s how I’m going out.” She even planned her own funeral and reception. That’s how cool this gal was.
I’ll be in her house next week in Florida writing, and I adore her. She had given me so much during life, support and love. I just looked at her and said, I miss you. She was like, “I know, honey.” I drove thousands of miles to hear I know, honey, and it was enough.
Before she transitioned, I was with her and she said, “Honey, you gave me the greatest gift. I read your book. I’m not afraid to die.”
A year later on my birthday, I went and saw Joan Nicole, this wonderful medium in the west suburbs. She said, “Chris is here. There’s also this woman here with round glasses. Very pretty, smart, and funny. She has the title of aunt, mother, sister.” I said, she was the godmother of Chris and a mom to me. She’s Christopher’s aunt, my sister. She said, “Did she call you Joey?” I go, yes, she calls me Joey. She said, “Joey, honey, thanks for giving me the greatest gift.”There are no coincidences. A coincidence is God showing off. Click To Tweet
Every once in a while, even guys like me need reinforcement that it’s all real. It’s all a rice paper wall away. Before Marcia transitioned, Christopher came to me and said, “I’m going to be there when Marcia transitions, Dad. I promise you. Don’t worry about that.”
The day after she did, he came through and said, “Look, we were all there. Me, Jerry, Billy, Pat. Diane, Bobby. We were all there.” With my siblings on the other side.
She said, “We were all there when Marcia transitioned, and we welcomed her, but then she had to go away somewhere.” “Like a spa,” he said. “When she came back, she was younger than when I was a kid.”
It took me a little while to figure this out—not being the sharpest knife in the drawer—that when she transitioned, the cancer stayed with her body on this side, but the trauma crossed with her spirit. She joined the family, and then had to go somewhere. What a wonderful term. She went to a spa basically to deal with the trauma that crossed with her. When she came back, she was younger. The trauma was gone and she was able to join in the soul family.
I’ve only seen Chris in meditation twice in six years. I’m working on that. I know it’s my end. I hear him, I smell him, and I feel him. I know when he’s here. I feel a tingle on the back of my neck. I feel like it’s a gift that I’ve given twice to be able to see him in meditation. I know that when we see them, they’re in their prime.
Chris is a 21-year-old boy, and will always appear that way to me. In my prime, believe it or not, I’m a much better guy at 65 than I was at 25. My prime is now. Marcia’s prime is when she was young. Maybe after just finishing raising her kids in her 40s. She’s vibrant. That’s how she presents.Anybody who said that time heals all wounds hasn't lost a child. Grief is a constant companion. Click To Tweet
When your aged grandma transitions, when you see her, you’re not going to see her as that old and frail woman. You’re going to see her when she is in her prime. What a gift that is. What a bargain.
So many people focus on the person’s last days or last minutes or the type of transition death it was instead of the person’s life and legacy. There’s so much focus on Lady Diana’s car accident in the tunnel and not enough on who she was as a person and the legacy that she left.
I’m guilty of that. Chris drowned. We were terrified of his last moments. Thomas John actually, we saw him and he walked us through it and Nancy Myers, but probably what brought me the most relief was Mary Neal. Dr. Neal wrote an amazing book where she died, went to heaven, and then came back. She’s a brilliant physician.
I remember I was listening to it in the car on the way out actually. It was on the night before the anniversary of one of his anniversaries. I was driving out to the place where he had drowned. It holds no energy for me. I won’t go back there. He told me, “You don’t need to go there.”
I was listening to it and I got to the point where she described drowning and what a nice experience it was. I started crying because we dreaded him in the cold, and his fear.
She told us that it’s not like that. Mediums told us he had a snoot full of alcohol and he had hypothermia. Nancy told me it was like he fell over in a crowd and woke up on the other side. He went to sleep.Thin places are where the veil is thinnest between both worlds. Click To Tweet
That brought us a lot of comfort and reassurance. Nobody wants to think of those last days, but he’s told me to let go of that. He goes, “That didn’t matter.”
“Think of the time I played some ball in my life. When you blew your knee out, remember how painful that was? Can you feel how painful it is now?” It’s like, no. He said, “That’s what dying is like. That’s what transitioning is like.” Of course, you know what the memory looks like, but you don’t really feel that impact anymore.
It’s like watching your movie. I’m got some gel injected in my knee from surgery 45 years ago, but the bottomline is I don’t really remember the pain from that. That’s what he’s telling me. However you go, let the parents know that we don’t remember that.
The term that keeps coming up is bliss. Their sight is bliss. He once said, “Dad, this side is like a football camp. It’s great. You’re with your friends, you’re competing, but it’s hard and it’s an injury. You’re in a cold tub, you’re icing, and everything hurts, but it’s still great.”
He said, “That’s your life, your world. My side is like a beach bungalow in Maui. They’re both good, but mine’s better.”
Yeah. It’s home for all of us. I recently learned the meaning of apocalypse. I always thought it was the end of the world, but it’s from the Greek apokalypsis, which means thinning of the veils.
I did not know that. I’m getting more out of this interview than you are, buddy. I’m going to write that out too.
Something else I wanted to share with you that showed up for me was February 6th, Marcia’s death anniversary. It’s an important day to light a candle and pray for her soul’s elevation. Every single prayer is heard.
I believe God answers all our prayers. Yes, no, and you’re not ready yet.
Not every prayer is answered in the way that we want. We mistakenly think that, oh, some of our prayers are being heard, but every prayer is heard. If you pray for her soul’s elevation on her death anniversary, that’s especially powerful and impactful. My advice would be to do that for all your loved ones.
I think that’s amazing. Chris told me once. He said, “I’m moving up a level.” I got a little worried about how it would affect me. He said, “Look, Dad, it’s like me calling you from Tucson or LA. The connection is the same. It doesn’t matter. My level, me going up in soul levels, isn’t going to change your connection.” That’s good to know.
I agree with you. I believe God answers all our prayers. Yes, no, and you’re not ready yet. It doesn’t mean we get everything we want, but they’re all answered.
Right. This is how I endeavor to pray. Besides just conversing with the Creator, it’s also asking for the things that will empower me to bring those things into my life and manifest those into my life.
For example, rather than winning the lottery or something, I ask for more desire to grow my tribe of followers and grow my reach and impact. I pray for more certainty. I pray for more wisdom knowing when King Solomon was given a gift from God, he was told that he could have anything.
God said, pick whatever you want. You’ve been really good. What he asked for was wisdom. Because that’s what he asked for instead of riches and all this stuff, God said, you know what, that was the most amazing thing that you asked for and therefore, you’re going to get everything else too.
Good deal. I want to remember that when someone asks me. I pray for abundance, but then part of that is I have a responsibility then to be a good guy with it. I’ve got to help others. I’ve got to do what I can to get Christopher’s message across.
I always make sure that I’m not going to be the guy at the pearly gates with St. Peter’s got his arm around saying, dude, why didn’t you ask? I want to ask and let God decide what I need. So far, he hasn’t dropped me on my head.
People say, how can you say you’ve had this amazing and wonderful life? Because I have. There’s a book called The Shack. I’m sure you’ve read it. That actually turned out to be a pretty good movie too.
I actually was about to watch it.
Watch it. It’s a good movie.
I get a lot of guidance. There’s this thing called bibliomancy. Bibliomancy is when you open a book and it’s just exactly the thing that you needed to read at that moment. That’s not an accident. That’s not random. That’s called bibliomancy. Especially if you do it with intention. You connect and ask like show you what I need to see.
Shufflemancy happens when you’re on (let’s say) social media, Netflix, or whatever, and the thing that is presented to you just pops off the page. It’s like the recommendation engine or the algorithm is presenting this to you. For me, it was The Shack.
We just talked about it. How’s that?
Yeah. These things just show up. Again, the more benevolent you are, the more synchronicities appear all day long for me. I’m so grateful for it and I recognize the responsibility that comes with it.
Yeah, you got to give it away to keep it, Stephan.
It’s just important not to say, well, I’m going to do good work and I’m going to deliver God’s miracles. It’s really important, that distinction.
In this book and the movie—and you’re going to love the movie, I love the movie—God takes different forms. God, the Father, takes different forms. In this place, he’s an African-American woman, kind of your aunt who was cooking, wise, and loving. It was a man who lost his daughter in a terrible way.
She said to him, just because I work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies doesn’t mean I orchestrate the tragedies. The unspeakable good is what we’re doing here, Stephan. The unspeakable tragedy was me losing my son. A lot of people out there are losing their kids, loved ones, parents, or spouses. Those are unspeakable tragedies, but goods got to come from them.
That’s what I feel my responsibility is. I’m given this crazy gift because of that. It’s a good trade for me. Not losing him. Losing him was a bad trade, but what I do with that final result is what matters to me.
What matters to you matters to the world.
I invariably think, in all humility, what matters to you, matters to the world. I think these books will be helping people—I’ve been told this by a wonderful medium, Tony Russo—long after I’ve transitioned. I’m not going to get the payday of those books, and that’s just fine. I’m okay.
When I go on Google and read the reviews, and what people talk about—I finally felt hope after reading your book. I changed after reading your book, I was able to embrace spirituality and find my son after reading your book—I go, Chris, we did our job, man. We’re going to keep doing it, but we’re already in the winner’s circle, bro.
That’s right. I know we have just a few minutes left.
I know, I enjoyed this.
If it’s alright, we’ll keep going for a few more. I’d love to hear a bit more about how it was to hear God’s voice in your head when he explained to you that He didn’t take your son, that that was a free choice and free will on Christopher’s part.
Believe it or not, I had heard it one time before this. Maybe it was prepping for this. I was driving down the street in the morning going to an AA meeting. Then there was some knuckleheaded woman in summer walking her dogs in the middle of the street sidewalks on both sides. My instinct was to curse her.
I didn’t do it. I got a message that says, ‘come on, man, you’re better than this.’ I’ve taught you better than this. I was like, okay. When this message came after Christopher had transitioned, it was a really loving message. It was like feedback if you’re listening in headphones.
That’s the same way Christopher comes through. It was clear as a bell, and that was it. There were no other distractions, no trumpets, no angels, just a message from the higher power saying, realign how you’re perceiving all of this.
There was such a warm sense of love that went with it that I didn’t feel reprimanded. I didn’t feel in any way judged. I felt loved. It really impacted how I went forward after that.
I knew that He wasn’t the adversary. He wasn’t the protagonist in this story. I knew that He was the guy to this day that I call on when I need help. I call Chris too. I’ll take any advantage I can get, but it was a game-changer. It was a life-changer for me, Stephan. It really was.
Do you talk to God every day?
Praying is talking to God, and meditation is listening.
All the time. They say praying is talking to God, meditation is listening. I can’t tell you the importance of it. Look at me, I’m A-personality, ADD. I just fill the days with energy and effort.
Some people say, ‘I can’t meditate.’ I say, BS. If I can, anybody can. That time is so pure. You leave yourself. You’re entranced.
What that does is reinforce that not only is there another side that’s better than this side, but that they care about us. They take us into their hearts. It’s just comforting and loving. So knock it off. Knock off the BS and find a thin place.
Mine is at 3 AM, guys. It’s worth it. I thought it was 3 AM because that’s when Christopher transitioned, which we knew is between 3 AM and 4 AM. On his anniversary, I was doing a download with him and writing it down. At the end, he said, “By the way, this is the time I crossed, and it was three forty-six.” Now I know exactly when he transitioned. It was at three forty-six in the morning.
Through research, I found out that between 3 AM and 4 AM is called the witching hour, when spirits are most active. Of course, my mind says, wait a minute, three forty-six Pacific Time or Greenwich Mean Time? It doesn’t matter. It’s where you are, 3–4 AM.
If you’re really trying to connect, get out of bed and make an effort. It doesn’t work to refund all your misery, but you can’t just talk about wanting to connect.
I’m going to Florida and I can’t wait. I’m going to Cassadaga which is like a Lilydale that is an offshoot in Tampa. I’m going to go there for maybe two days. I’m now a seeker of all things spiritual and metaphysical. None of this is New Age. I left that New Age.
Rumi, the 13th-century poet, said “Goodbyes are only for those who love with their eyes. Because for those who love with heart and soul, there is no such thing as separation.”
What is New Age about it? It’s not new. It’s just new to me. Get over yourself. This stuff has been part of the world since inception. It’s just a personal discovery for me.
Beautiful. Another thing I’ll leave us with and our listener is that there’s the witching hour as you said, but there’s also a very auspicious time to receive dreams. That’s very early in the morning as the dawn is coming. It depends on the time of year, but I got a beautiful heavenly dream, the only one I’ve had like this, and I did ask for it.
I just attended a webinar from Karen Noé who was a guest on this podcast. That webinar was all about how to receive messages and signs from angels and your departed loved ones. One of the things that she taught was to just simply ask for a dream and then to be woken up from the dream so that you’ll remember it.
I did that. I was woken up at 7 AM. It was an ethereal, magical, very holy, beautiful dream that I was given. It was prophetic. That can happen too. It’s in the asking that it is given.
I’m doing that. Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be open. I’ll give you another Bible verse from a guy who doesn’t quote the Bible, but I’m going to try that tonight. I love it. Thank you for that.
Chris keeps telling me in the second book, “Look, Dad, you’re no expert.” Chris thinks I’m getting a little too big for my britches. I’m literally ankle-deep, maybe shin-deep, in this knowledge. I’m running out of time, but what I’m going to do is gain as much knowledge about where I go before I go.
Let me tell you about the time. It is an illusion just like everything else that isn’t love. Love is the only real thing here, unconditional love. Time, space, and motion are all an illusion. If you pray to have that illusionary veil lifted for you, you can do what seems to be impossible with time.
Did you know that there are time lords that will assist you just like your guardian angels will assist you and save you from certain death if you get yourself in trouble and it wasn’t your time, for example? There are time lords that you can ask for assistance. Oh my goodness, I have to be there for this meeting. It’s really important. Please, time lords, I need your help.
What was that movie where the comedian was playing God and he had all those power?
It’s about John Denver.
No, this was a different one. This was a more recent one.
Oh, I know. Morgan Freeman makes some God and gives him his chest.
Yeah, exactly. I forgot the name of the movie. Anyway, all of the cars parted, and then he was able to make it straight to his appointment on time. That can happen for all of us. It’s all in the asking. Ask and it is given.
I’m excited for you and all that you’re going to uncover, accomplish, feel, and be over this coming year. You’ve got all the time in the world.
Yeah. And when the alarm goes off, I have no concerns about the next round.I believe I've been given this amazing gift, but I got to give it away to keep it. Click To Tweet
Yeah. It’s just a door.
It’s just a door, I agree.
Beautiful. What a pleasure. What an inspiring and beautiful conversation. I’m very excited for what’s to come for you and for the readers who are going to be going through your book and having profound experiences, epiphanies, and miracles happening from what you’re sharing with the world. Thank you.
Thank you, listener. Now, get out there, do some good in the world, and reveal some light. We’ll catch you in the next episode. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.
Checklist of Actionable Takeaways
Be optimistic. Life is full of unspeakable tragedies. Acknowledge the existence of loss, pain and suffering, but hope and meaning can be found in life.
Be gentle with myself. Grief is exhausting. Take care of my body during periods of intensive stress. Carve out time for naps, eat nourishing foods, and drink plenty of water.
Emotions that accompany grief are all valid. Whatever I feel at a given moment makes sense.
Seek out support. Do not isolate myself when grieving; instead, seek out people to help me overcome my situation.
Do a life review. It can provide new insights that result in resolving old issues, reconciliation with estranged loved ones, atonement for past mistakes, and integration of the past with the present. Finally, it can culminate in serenity and acceptance of the life one has lived.
Don’t fear death. If it’s my time to go, then I’m good. Accept it if it’s my loved one’s time to go. Fearing death will make it hard for me to process grief when losing someone dear to me.
Establish a relationship with God through prayer and meditation. It is important to have a relationship with God to have an anchor when facing situations and circumstances.
Believe that God answers all my prayers. The answer may be yes, no, or not yet. Praying doesn’t mean that I get everything I want, but all are answered.
Believe that there is an afterlife. My loved ones that passed away are just on the other side. I may not be with them physically, but we can still connect spiritually.
Visit Joe McQuillen’s website to learn more about his story. Also, check out and read his books, My Search for Christopher on the Other Side, which tells the story of the journey of discovery, and We’re Not Done Yet, Pop, which takes his audience to the next level of discovery and awakening.
About Joe McQuillen
Married and father of three children, one on the other side, is the youngest of 10 children from an Irish-Catholic family. Although he has had two successful careers, he is at heart a blue-collar kid from Buffalo, NY. Starting as a salesman, he spent 25 years in the automobile business, eventually becoming executive manager and partner in a number of successful Chicago dealerships. After selling out in 2009, Joe began a second, impressive career as a mortgage broker.
Among his many charitable associations, Joe sits on the board of ln Balance Ranch Academy, a boarding school dedicated to helping troubled teens with addiction. Following the loss of his son, he began running a charity golf outing to benefit both In Balance Ranch and Penguin Players, a theater troupe of disabled young adults.
A proud member of AA and many years sober, Joe says that “helped me to get close to God and carry me through the dark times after my boy’s crossing.” His journey has led him to speak knowledgeably and lovingly both to teens with addiction and to parents who have lost children and to write this book. He is determined to turn his heartbreak into a narrative that will bring comfort and hope to all that hear his message.
Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.
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