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By: Stephan Spencer


Romantic relationships are both infinitely complex and incredibly simple. There are four types of men and four types of women, making it simple for an expert to predict what sort of partner you might look for based on your personality and current life stage. Based on these patterns of attraction,  we can identify our current roles and shift into becoming real men and real ladies.

Dr. Pat Allen, a relationship expert and transactional analyst, joins me on today’s show to explore these concepts in depth. She offers no-holds-barred relationship advice that’s full of value whether you’re currently single or in a relationship. Pat has been featured on Oprah several times. Tune into the show for more on who she is, what she does, and how much value she can offer!

Dr. Pat Allen
“Old souls have been male and female over and over.”
Dr. Pat Allen

In this Episode

  • [01:30]What is Dr. Pat’s definition of a real man? In her answer, she talks about the relation between wanting to be respected and cherished, and how they relate to masculinity and femininity.
  • [04:07]The male soul is called the anima, and the female soul is called the animus, Dr. Pat explains. She then discusses how this relates to same-sex relationships.
  • [06:04]The more masculine person knows what he wants, whereas the more feminine person knows what she doesn’t want. Pat then offers two pledges: a masculine one and a feminine one.
  • [08:02]Pat talks about genius, explaining that it’s “information before education.”
  • [09:05]We learn about betas and alphas. Betas are new souls and alphas are old souls, Pat explains. She then discusses the four styles of men: feminine men, monk men, sugar daddies, and real men.
  • [11:35]Stephan brings up the topic of relationships built on convenience.
  • [15:21]Pat explains that she is a transactional analyst, not a psychoanalyst.
  • [16:12]What are the women’s counterparts for the four types of men that Pat has described? They’re claw women (for sugar daddies), the none (for the monk), Wendy (for Peter Pan), and the real lady (for the real man).
  • [18:32]Pat explains why it’s important not to have sex without commitment. She discusses broken-heart syndrome (Takotsubo cardiomyopathy).
  • [21:52]What form should the commitment required before sex take?
  • [24:55]Stephan brings up a study in which women smelled men’s t-shirts to assess their compatibility.
  • [26:28]Pat discusses what form of commitment the feminine woman should be asking for from the masculine man, and how he should present his interest in a way that’s not jumping in too fast. She then offers the locations and times for her workshops.
  • [29:22]What’s the significance of cognitive behavioral therapy? Pat answers, then discusses the fact that she records all of her sessions and why the words you use really matter.
  • [35:16]Whoever carries the most yin has the veto right, Pat explains.
  • [36:00]One step listeners can take immediately is to go to Pat’s website and get either her A Lifetime of Love series or Want Training for Effective Living.
  • [37:28]How has Pat’s amazing work shown up in her own relationship? She discusses how dramatically she has changed her life and shares a photo with Stephan.
  • [40:21]Stephan shares his own transformation with Pat.
  • [41:25]Pat wraps things up by asking Stephan what he learned from her today.

Jump to Links and Resources


‏‏Are you ready for some no holds barred relationship advice? You are in for a treat. Whether you are single or in a relationship, you’re going to get a ton of value out of this episode and it’s going to be a lot of fun. We have Dr. Pat Allen with us today. She tells it like it is, she’s sassy, she’s super smart. She’s the author of Getting To “I Do”, she’s been on The Oprah Show four times, as well as CNN, Bravo, The Millionaire Matchmaker. She has seminars in LA that are amazing, I’ve attended a few of them. They’ve resulted in literally thousands of marriages. She is incredible, this is Dr. Pat Allen. Welcome Dr. Pat, it’s great to have you on my show.

‏‏It’s nice to be here.

‏‏Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I would love to know what your definition is of a real man?

‏‏A real man is a human being that knows whether he wants to be cherished first or respected first. A real man is simply a man that knows who he is.

‏‏A real man is a human being that knows whether he wants to be cherished first or respected first. A real man is simply a man that knows who he is.

‏‏Cherished first or respected first. Let’s clarify that for our listeners. Can you be both cherished and respected?

‏‏Everybody’s both. It’s what your priority is. People who want to be equally cherished and equally respected are narcissists and they have to have zero people, codependent relationships.

‏‏That doesn’t sound too healthy.

‏‏I got news for you, if the couple likes it, who am I to guess?


‏‏I’m a therapist, not a moralist.

‏‏If somebody wants to be respected more than they want to be cherished, does that make them more masculine or more feminine?

‏‏More masculine.

‏‏More masculine.

‏‏Yang energy is competitive, conquering, and controlling. Feminine energy is passive, patient, and vulnerable. I need a Fred Astaire and a Ginger Rogers, two Fred Astaires.

‏‏They don’t mix?

‏‏No, they bump.

‏‏How does that show up in a relationship?

‏‏I think, I think. I want, I want.

‏‏What does that mean?‏‏

Getting to “I Do” by Dr. Pat Allen

They both want respect.

‏‏If somebody says I think and I want and so forth, is that the masculine that’s saying that?

‏‏Yes. That’s yang.

‏‏What is feminine? How is feminine responding?

‏‏I feel good about that. I don’t feel very good about that. I don’t want to do that. Yin is in charge of what they don’t want. Women are chemistry. Feminine, estrogen is very feminine. Young women and old men are very feminine. Young men and older women are very masculine. There’s a time to be one and there’s a time to be another one.

‏‏Right. Let’s say the woman—

‏‏No, the cherishable one.

‏‏The feminine.

‏‏Men are women too. You have a yang body, male, but you have a yin soul, the anima. The Yin and Yang Way of Life is a great book. My book is a great book. Getting to “I Do” is a great book. God did a good job through me.

‏‏I agree. I’ve attended some of your workshops and they’re amazing.

‏‏I think so.

‏‏You’ve really helped me in the days when I was looking for my partner. This was over four years ago now. I found her at a Tony Robbins event. You helped me prepare to show up as a real man from what I learned from you.

‏‏I heard Tony Robbins extols my virtues as well.

‏‏You’re famous.

‏‏So does Marianne Williamson.

‏‏You’re world-renowned, for sure. The Anima and the Animus

‏‏Exist. The male soul is called the anima. That’s Latin. The female soul, the woman soul is the animus which is Latin for male love. We’re all both.

‏‏If we’re both but we have more of, let’s say I’m more masculine than I am feminine…

‏‏Then you’ll want respect from your woman even if your woman is another man. This works for straight, gay or lesbian.

‏‏Got it. Let’s say that you are in a same-sex relationship. One person is more masculine and the other person is more feminine.

‏‏Guaranteed. Periodically, they often switch. They’ve got to both switch otherwise they’d collide.

‏‏In order for that polarity to stay in sync. Let’s say in my relationship, my wife is more feminine than she is masculine, I’m more masculine than I am feminine.



‏‏It won’t be that way when you’re 60. You’ll be more feminine. Grandpa’s nicer than dad and grandma’s meaner than mom. You’re not coming to thanksgiving? They’d have a heart attack.

‏‏I get it. With my masculine energy, I should show up with I think and I want.

‏‏But you better show up with how do you feel about it or you’re in trouble.

Yin and Yang Way of Life by Joseph Kim and David Lee

‏‏She’s going to say I feel this and I feel that but if she says I think and I want,

‏‏I’m going to make money.


‏‏I don’t want to make that money.

‏‏The person who makes the money is the one who is more masculine in the relationship?

‏‏Not really. Queen Elizabeth makes all the money and she’s not the masculine. Prince Philip is definitely the masculine. How did I know? He drove himself home from the hospital for god’s sake.

‏‏Okay. The person who is the more masculine one,

‏‏Is the one that wants what they want. Feminine yin energy knows what it doesn’t want. Raise your right hand.


‏‏I promise on my honor, to give, protect and cherish women, kids, animals, the planet even when they’re illogical, irrational, and often irritating. So help me, God.

‏‏I promise, on my honor, to give, protect and cherish women, kids, animals, the planet even when they’re illogical, irrational, and often irritating. So help me, God.

‏‏Now, I’m going to give your wife’s pledge as a woman. I promise, on my honor, to respect the man I love, my father, my brother, my boyfriend, my man, my husband even when sometimes I think I’m smarter. Furthermore, I promise to keep my masculine yang mouth shut unless I have to call the police, a doctor, or a lawyer first. How do you like that?

‏‏That’s awesome. I love it. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard it and it’s not the first time I made the pledge. I’m on board with that. It’s great.

‏‏Malcolm Gladwell in his book Outliers says if you do anything 10,000 times, you’re going to be a success. That’s why I’m a success.

‏‏What have you done 10,000 times?

‏‏This. That phrase alone, those pledges alone I’ve done 10,000 times in 46 years of repetition.

‏‏And explaining to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands potential people.

‏‏My radio show, LA Talk Radio, I got a call from Zimbabwe.


‏‏I did counseling to a couple in Russia. I’m a standard in Australia and England. They even fly over here for sessions.

‏‏Amazing. That’s great. You’re changing the world, that’s for sure.

‏‏No. The world’s changing itself based on what I’m triggering. Do you know what genius is? Everybody is a genius in something.

‏‏Tell me about that.

‏‏Do you know what genius is?

‏‏I’ve got my own idea about it.‏‏

Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

Information before education.

‏‏How so?

‏‏Men do it by intuition and women do it by instinct.


‏‏Isn’t that awesome?


‏‏There are guys who know how to handle a machinery from the time they’re three years old. There are women that know how to grow plants, including orchids, by the time they’re three years old.

‏‏I remember when I was a teenager, I have figured out a way how to scrounge a car for $65, I got my own car. I was able to figure out how to install a replacement alternator just by scrounging a replacement one in the junkyard.

‏‏That’s you in a genius mood with machinery. We all are genius in something.

‏‏I agree. There are some men who are not that evolved and are not showing up as real men.

‏‏Well, they’re betas. They’re not alphas.

‏‏Tell me more about that.

‏‏Alphas are old souls. As a spiritual director, new souls are people who have only been around so many times but old souls have been male and female over and over and over. Got it?

‏‏Got it. Let’s say somebody shows up as a new soul in a beta sort of situation. You have names for these different kinds of guys.


‏‏Let’s talk about those.

‏‏The four styles of men are number one, the feminine. The feminine men, Peter Pan, loves masculine, either men or women depending whether they’re straight or gay. There are Monk men, they don’t want to be intimate sexually. They’re spiritually close but not physically close. They’re fine. Then there are Sugardaddies. Now, those are men that are so lacking in self-esteem that they have to buy love. They have to pay for this and that and everything else. Do you see it? Then there are real men. Real men know what they want and what they don’t want and care enough about women or feminine men that they ask them for input.

‏‏They want respect and they know how to cherish their partner.

‏‏They have to. If they don’t, they’re narcissists. They want to be respected and cherished. There are three styles of relationships. Convenient, they both make money and they both do chores. That’s very convenient. But they still have to remember who gets the respect and who gets cherished verbally. Be aware of your thoughts, they become words. Beware of your words, they become habits. Be aware of habits, they become your character. Be aware of your character, it becomes your destiny. The bank is making money, the doctor’s office being well, and in every single relationship, especially loving, especially sexual, erotic relationships. Do you see?

‏‏Yeah. A relationship built on convenience doesn’t sound really that deep, pretty superficial.

‏‏What are you talking about?

‏‏Well, if you have a relationship that’s about convenience-

‏‏It’s about both of you have careers as two doctors, two lawyers. They both want respect and they both want to be cherished but not at the same time because if they wanted it at the same time, they’re narcissistic. Narcissism is perfectly healthy if you’re not in a relationship because you’re individuated and you’re actualized. Do you see what I mean?


‏‏That is the truth. If you know how to speak, I think how do you feel, I feel what do you think, you don’t have to be a narcissist whether you want respect or cherishing. Men and women that are 45 to 50 years old change chemically. The testosterone goes down, the estrogen impacts. In women, the estrogen goes down, and the progesterone impacts. We all get a chance to be male and female from time to time. In my book Getting to “I Do”, William Morrow required that I put in because it was written towards women, one woman who wants to be respected and cherished, and one woman who wants to be cherished and respected.

Men and women that are 45 to 50 years old change chemically.

‏‏Cherished first then respected versus respected first and then cherished.

‏‏But they’re both okay.

‏‏As long as they’re not trying to get both at the same time while the other partner is trying to do the same thing.

‏‏One person has to be zero. Then there’s the codependency. That sounds so bad. See Secretary, that’s the movie on it.

‏‏That’s a good movie.

‏‏It’s normal to be codependent when you’re under five years old but if you’re 35 and your mother’s 55 and you’re a man and you’re codependent, you’re a wuss. If you happen to be a girl and you’re 35, and your father is 55, and you cherish him before you cherish yourself, you’re his momma.

‏‏You’re an enabler in a codependent relationship.

‏‏Yeah, right. Then there’s the ever-popular Covenant. The Covenant, I’ll give you a copy. The Covenant is only legal in Louisiana now.

‏‏Let’s restate that.

‏‏Louisiana, Arizona, Minnesota, and Michigan. Now it’s only Louisiana.

‏‏Let’s restate that because there’s paper shuffling in my audio editor set. First, you mentioned convenient.

‏‏Convenient. That’s two doctors, two lawyers. Two people both throwing in money, both throwing chores but they talk I think, how do you feel, I feel, what do you think.

‏‏They know when to trade-off.

‏‏They have to.

‏‏Then there’s the codependent relationship.

‏‏Codependent is one person wanting to be respected and cherished and the other person willing to do it.

‏‏Is willing to be a zero, essentially.


‏‏Then you’ve got the next one, is?


‏‏The covenant.

‏‏It used to be a legal choice. You have to sign up and have a ceremony behind the wedding ceremony which said one person agreed to be a breadwinner for the duration of the relationship and the other person promised to be the homemaker for the duration of the relationship.

‏‏That sounds like kind of the 50s.

‏‏It’s still quite popular. The Mideast is rampant with covenant relationships. Sharia law is a covenant.

‏‏I get that.

‏‏If both of them like it, it’s none of our business.

‏‏Sure. If it works then it works. Is there a fourth style?

‏‏Yeah, it’s called Moneymaker. That’s when one person wants one style and another person wants another style and they need a therapist to be in their life monthly.

‏‏That sounds like a lot of work.

‏‏Read the book by Maslow, Toward a Psychology of Being. There are two kinds of people to him. One is deficient. They’re either minus feelings or thinking or something. The other one is sufficient. If you’re a D person, you’re deficient. If you’re a B person, you’re being yourself. My gift is to apply respect cherishing communication. I’m a transactional analyst. I am not a psychoanalyst although I use it for its worth. I’m not an analyst, I use yang but I’m not an analyst. I’m a transactional analyst. I watch people’s quantum mechanical words to impact their chemistry, psyche. Do you see?

‏‏I’ve heard about transactional analysis before. I don’t know a lot about it. Let’s go back to these different types of men. You have the Peter Pan, the real man, the sugar daddy, and the fourth one is what?

‏‏The monk.

‏‏The monk, that’s right.‏‏

Toward a Psychology of Being by Abraham Maslow

He’s the one that doesn’t want sex.

‏‏Yes. On the women’s side, what are the counterparts? I know for the sugar daddy, he hooks up with—

‏‏Claw woman.

‏‏Oh, claw woman.

‏‏They move sexily. She’s the one that steals him from his wife with hot sex.


‏‏For a hunk of money.

‏‏What’s another term for that?


‏‏Sure, okay. Besides the claw woman, what are the other types?

‏‏There’s the Nun. The nun doesn’t take care of herself, she takes care of everybody around her. Do you see? She and the monk have oral sex at Mother’s every week. They converted sex to food.

‏‏Mother’s, the market. For non-local people who are listening, they might not get that joke. I get it.

‏‏They turn food into sex. Oral sex.

‏‏I got it.

‏‏That’s the nun and the monk.

‏‏The nun and?

‏‏There’s Wendy with Peter Pan.

‏‏What does Wendy do? What is she like?

‏‏Wendy takes care of little Peter and he loves his mommy.

‏‏She kind of wears the pants in the family?

‏‏The long ones. He may be wearing the short ones.

‏‏In green.

‏‏There are dressers. There are all kinds of ways to be feminine.

‏‏We’ve got Wendy. What’s the female equivalent to the real man?

‏‏To the real man? A real lady. She’s a woman that says I appreciate that you want me to have sex on the third day but I don’t have casual sex unless I’m committed to a marriage-bound relationship, I’m not going to give you intercourse. I may give you a handjob, I may even let you go down on me but I’m not having intercourse because that’s too serious.

‏‏Without commitment, that’s a no-go area.

‏‏No go.

‏‏Why is that important?

‏‏When you’re chemically attracted to somebody, your body is going, “I want him. I don’t care if you don’t like him. I want him anyway. I want her.” Older men between 45 and 55 love miss hard body gold digger. Young men between 45 and 55 love the claw woman because that’s where they’re at in their sex lives. But real men and real women have ideas about their boundaries. Where am I going with this? Are we going to be monogamous sexually and socially? A lot of people are monogamous sexually but socially, they go right back on the website and advertise themselves as single. Do you see? Monogamous, continuous, that means you see each other or talk to each other at a rate that is comfortable for both of you. Your long-term goals, I’m just having a shipboard romance. If that’s okay with you then that’s okay with me but I’m aiming for marriage or I’m aiming to mate monogamously and continuously. Do you see?


‏‏You’ve got to negotiate that before you have intercourse because once you have intercourse, you’ve gone across the god line. When you can create a human being with your sexuality, you are playing with big-time fire. Do you see?

‏‏If you’re just doing it casually and you don’t have the other person’s goals and their objectives in mind…

When you are betrayed by someone you truly love, you run the risk of the lower part of your heart filling up with fluid, even if it’s healthy.

‏‏You can’t build anything. Remember, there are symbiotic relationships, there are friendly friends with perks, there are erotic friendships, but the worst one that destroys people is where one person has fallen in love and the other person is wanting superficial. That can create a life experience that could create death, the Takotsubo cardiomyopathy heart attack. Do you know what that is?


‏‏It’s the broken heart syndrome. When you are betrayed by someone you truly love, you run the risk of the lower part of your heart filling up with fluid, even if it’s healthy. That predisposes you to a heart attack that could kill you, male or female.

‏‏You truly can die from a broken heart.

‏‏Look it up on your Google, the broken heart syndrome. It’s called Takotsubo. That’s the name of the doctor that specialized in it. The Takotsubo cardiomyopathy heart attack. I’ve got four clients already since I heard about it that have managed to get to the emergency ward to get a heart check. If somebody is listening and they’re going through what happens quickly after the betrayal, it’s the shock, go immediately to an emergency ward, and have your heart checked.

‏‏That’s very important. Going back to what we’re talking about before with getting that commitment. What form does that commitment take?

‏‏The form of commitment, in fact, I want to point you to something. On July 23rd of this year, in the New York Times, there was an extensive erroneous article, didn’t use my name, but most of my clients knew that they were responding to it, it said, “So you’re in love, sign on the bottom line.” See what they’re playing to? The contractual affair. But interesting. The article starts out with, a lady wrote it, she said, “My boyfriend and I got two beers and sat down and worked out a contract.” They talked about time, space, money, play. It was obvious. It was my work. They just hadn’t aimed it back to me, which is okay with me.

‏‏They didn’t give you the credit.

‏‏When men drink mind-altering chemicals, they go feminine. It knocks out their intuition and puts them into instinct. That’s how he loses his family when he screws the waitress that seduces him. When women use mind-altering chemicals, they knock out their instinct to say, “No, that doesn’t feel good to me.” Women go intuitive, “Ah, it’s just tonight. My husband won’t find out.” Do you know that you guys have 21 genes on your sperm cells before your eight days in utero that are directed towards you being intuitive? That’s how you end up in front of the restaurant that we’re going to meet our lover in. Got it?


‏‏We know that bitch you’re hiring for a secretary is coming after you. We want her gone. What’s your reason? I’m not screwing her. All you gotta do is smell her. That’s the pheromones. If you’re falling in love with somebody, the first sign is the pheromone compatibility. If you’re with the woman in church and you’re married and the woman that’s sitting next to you has the right chemistry which is a little like mom and a little not like mom, you’re going to be thinking about that woman for the next three nights. Got it?


‏‏If we happened to meet a doctor or somebody that’s taking care of us, and his chemistry is a little like our dad’s and a little not like our dad’s, we’re going to be thinking about him for three days; it takes three days to get off heroin. Do you know what I mean? The truth of the matter is you have to detox when you accidentally meet somebody with chemistry. That’s nature doing its number.

‏‏I remember there’s a study out there where they tested t-shirts.

‏‏Oh god yes. The t-shirt thing. Totally.

‏‏Women would smell the t-shirts and some t-shirts smelled awful to them and some smelled good. There’s DNA compatibility or something that they found.

‏‏I just said it. Nature does not create puppy mills. We, humans, create puppy mills.

‏‏What do you mean by that?

‏‏I have a client who’s married to somebody in the Mideast, Saudi Arabia, who happens to be a first cousin. Guess what kind of babies they have?

‏‏Oh no.

‏‏Yeah, broken.



‏‏Puppy mills.

‏‏No puppy mills.

‏‏You get the birth defects because there’s not enough genetic variation.

‏‏In Mexico, there are small towns where you get six fingers.

‏‏Okay, got it. Not too much like dad but not too foreign either, not like an alien.

‏‏Can’t be too foreign. Can’t be an alien, it can’t be taboo. Do you see what I mean?

‏‏Yep, got it. What form of commitment should the feminine woman be asking for from the masculine man?

‏‏The feminine man.

‏‏Let’s say that the masculine man is interested in something more long-term, not just playing the field whatever.


‏‏How does he present that in a way that’s not jumping too fast?

‏‏He says, “I noticed you’re still on the website. I want you off.” The first sign a man is interested is I want you off the website.

‏‏No more, no more Tinder, or any of that.

‏‏No more, yeah. If she says, “Well, it’s too soon.” She doesn’t have enough chemistry. He knows.

‏‏What if it’s the woman who’s wanting that of the man?

‏‏Usually, it’s because he’s asked for sex.

‏‏She’s like, “No, wait a second.”

‏‏“No, wait a second. I saw you still on the website.”

‏‏Because if you go for it anyways without asking for what you want, you’ve lost all your leverage.

‏‏I know.

‏‏While you have a leverage, before you’ve slept with him, ask him—

‏‏I don’t care if you sleep with him, it’s whether you have intercourse. I call that the god moment. You’re about to make another human being whether you like it or not. It’s kind of like a god move wouldn’t you say?

‏‏Yeah, that’s very serious for sure.

‏‏Handjobs, not that serious. Going down on us, very nice, not that serious, no. Intercourse, oral, anal, and vaginal. What’s wrong with intercourse oral? Because he’s getting his rocks off and you’re not getting yours off.

‏‏Okay. The power dynamic isn’t in your favor.


‏‏And you’re still not getting what you want.


‏‏Got it. I know that you’ve talked about this before in your workshops, a promise ring—

‏‏First Monday of the month in Los Angeles, at the Courtyard Marriott at Bristol and the 405 or the first Wednesday at the Newport beach at the Newport Center on Avocado, [7:00] to [8:30].

‏‏You’ve got LA covered, you’ve got Orange County covered. If only everybody could come to fly and see you.

‏‏And you can get me on the radio.


‏‏Thursdays. [5:00] to [6:00].

‏‏Perfect. I’ll include links to all these different resources that we’ve talked about and different books, your books of course, and your radio show, your in-person talks in LA and Orange County.

‏‏I don’t work for money, I work for success. And success is helping people love one another.

Success is helping people love one another. Share on X

‏‏And you’re making a difference in the world for that.

‏‏I am and I’m doing it for me.

‏‏That is awesome. What would be another topic that we should talk about? I know that before we started recording, you pointed out that I probably hadn’t had any cognitive-behavioral therapists on my show yet. You’re my first one. What’s the significance of cognitive-behavioral therapy or CBT?

‏‏If the mind doesn’t know, and the mouth can’t talk about it, the body will demonstrate it in illness. Everything I do, I’ve been doing this for 46 years, everything I do is based on science. I record every session. How many therapists record every session?

‏‏I don’t know any actually.

‏‏Do you know why?


‏‏Because it’s too litigious, it’s too subject to a lawsuit. I love depositions. Do you know why?


‏‏Because I get to talk about science.

‏‏Okay. What do you do with those recordings? How does it help you be a better therapist?

‏‏I cost $250 an hour.

‏‏Which is a bargain frankly, because I know how scaled you are.

‏‏Well, because I get things done fast. Do you realize that Freud said that you need to listen to your therapy five times a week? Woody Allen, I don’t think it took. But five times a week going to your therapist. Do you realize when a person makes—I can’t repeat things. Everything I do is creative. Every time you listen to your recording, you’re rewiring your broca which is the science of what I’m doing. What’s the broca? It’s named after Pierre Paul Broca. It’s called the area of language in the left hemisphere. It is manipulated. Do you know that a baby, if it doesn’t hear the dialect of its culture like Chinese—have you ever talked to somebody with an Asian dialect?

‏‏No. Oh yeah.

‏‏They can’t speak it. You’ll have to listen to the dialectical sound of language by ten months. I teach Language Manipulation. When you listen to what you’re learning on a CD or on a phone, you’re rewiring your broca, named after Pierre Paul Broca. He was a surgeon in France in the 1800s, blew a rod through his skull, it didn’t kill him.

‏‏I’ve heard about that, yeah.

‏‏But the person could not use language from then on. When I get a person—I make CDs, see that machine back there? That’s a Marantz, wonderful machine. I make CDs before you bring in your cellphone and you tape-record me. Therefore, you’re building up a catalog of brain rewiring that will ultimately carry you to a better place logically. There are only three ways to communicate. Intimidate with fear, seduce with guilt, and negotiate with love. Two out of three are feeling-centered. Feelings are not negotiable other than drugs, meds, murder, or suicide.

‏‏How do you negotiate then?

‏‏You get people to say what they think you teach them. I teach them the language. I’ll ask them what they want, how to say no to what they don’t want, how to confront people with respect and cherishing, how to flush the nonverbal to the verbal level. That’s my doctoral work, Androgynous Semantic Realignment.

‏‏Androgynous Semantic Realignment. If you’re saying as a masculine man, I feel, I feel all the time. I feel upset, I feel bothered.

‏‏You’re a woman.

‏‏You’re taking on the feminine in the relationship.

‏‏Yes. That’s okay as long as you like having a masculine wife or a masculine lover if you’re gay.

‏‏The words really matter. If you use the wrong words then you speak into reality or perhaps a reality you don’t want.

‏‏Two people want to buy your car. One says they would like to buy it and one says they want to buy it. Who’s got the money?

‏‏The one who wants it.

Women want generally, men want specifically.

‏‏That’s right. You knew that. But do you know how many people are going I would like to talk to you, I would like to get a raise, I would like to buy your car, and I would like to marry you. Remember, men who like being respected wants because I want you, I want it, I want that. Feminine wants generally. I want to be married, I want to be a parent. That’s the difference between men and women. Women want generally, men want specifically.

‏‏With that knowledge, with that understanding, how can you hack your life to be more effective?

‏‏By negotiating time, I time, we time, us time. By negotiating space, chores, maintenance, private property. Money, my money, your money, our money, who runs it and how does it play. Play, nonsexual, and sexual. I don’t want you on the computer when I get home. I don’t want you screwing other people. I want to make love with you three times a week. I’ll ask you twice, you ask me once. Do you see what I mean?

‏‏Yup. That sounds so powerful but it doesn’t feel intimidating, it doesn’t feel controlling. It just feels like you know what you want.

‏‏You’re negotiating.

‏‏You know what you want. You don’t ask, you don’t get it.

‏‏Remember, whoever carries the most yin has the veto right. Doesn’t feel good, I don’t like it, no.

‏‏The veto right. Tell me more about that.

‏‏The veto right is based on estrogen. Older men have estrogen more than testosterone and younger women have estrogen. That’s why older men and younger women get along and that’s why older women and younger men. Toy boys, they get along because they’re both biochemically similar at that time. Science rules everything.

Toy boys, they get along because they’re both biochemically similar at that time. Science rules everything.

‏‏What would be some things that our listeners can start applying immediately in their lives besides what we were just talking about, the Androgynous Semantic Realignment, changing their words?

‏‏Go directly to my website and get either a Lifetime Of Love series or Want Training for Effective Living.

‏‏Tell me about the Effective Living Training.

‏‏It’s the training of the tools. It’s my stuff. You’ve got a bit of it here.

‏‏So the CBT, the semantic realignment.

‏‏Right. Get the classwork. Do you see what I mean?


‏‏That’s the difference between emotive therapy and cognitive therapy. When you come to me, you’re coming to class. Do you see what I mean? I have no problem with you going and getting an emotive therapist. Get one.

‏‏Define for me emotive therapy.

‏‏Emotive therapy cares about whether your mommy loved you, whether your daddy was this and that. It’s very often very invested in investigating what happened to you.

‏‏It really focuses on the past.

‏‏I’m more into what do you want from me, what do you want me to help you get, what do you want me to help you get rid of?

‏‏Very results-focused.

‏‏Many people are willing to pay $250 and more to talk. I get bored. I don’t want to talk. I want to communicate, helping you get what you want, or getting rid of what you don’t want. Do you see?

‏‏Yeah. How has all this amazing work that you created in a world shown up in your relationship?

‏‏Well, let’s put it this way, I was an Irish catholic drunk in the middle of Sioux City, Iowa.

‏‏Tell me more about that.

‏‏What that meant was I wasn’t a human, I wasn’t a woman. I married a German. I love Germans but I didn’t like that one.

‏‏But you married him.

‏‏I married him because my dad wanted grandchildren and my dad was a drunk. In a flaming female’s state, he was not very nice to me. I married someone and that person, I was just like my dad. I drank, I’m sober for 46 years. Otherwise, I’m just plain old drunk.


‏‏I wanted to be a nun. A real one.

‏‏Like nun.

‏‏Nun, not none.


‏‏I had four kids which I’m glad. But I was still more nun-ish. That allowed them to become creative themselves. Too much mothering can be a bad thing. I raised four independent, autonomous children that I’m extremely proud of and the best stroke I ever got was one of my four daughters said to my other daughter, “Read mom’s book even if she wrote it.”

‏‏That’s high praise.

‏‏Because they were used to me being this weird, catholic, drunk, nit-wit, 205 pounds, blood pressure 250/148, no reason I could live past 35.

‏‏Wow, you turned out your life completely around.

‏‏Do you want to see a picture of me?

‏‏Yup, I sure do.

‏‏This is a picture. Now, this is an interesting story because I had a wonderful husband after the one divorced me and he married somebody he deserved.


‏‏Yeah, right. We had a good 15 years together. He has been a surfer when he was young and a hippie, pot smoker, this smoker, whatever. When I got him, he came down with osteoporosis in his back. For six years, he was on Opioids.

‏‏Oh no.

‏‏I had already lost my weight but my doctor told me knowing how horrible it is to be a caregiver to a dying person for six years. He said, “Pat, eat, don’t drink.” This is me in 2002.

‏‏Holy cow.

‏‏No, the cow is not me. That’s me.

‏‏My goodness. Is this something that I could share with listeners? Could I take a picture?

‏‏Of course, you can.

‏‏That’ll be amazing. I have my own transformation before photo as well. I’ll quickly show you and then we’ll wrap up the episode.

‏‏Wait, do you have one of those?

‏‏I’m not really overweight but I look unrecognizable, like somebody 20 years older. This was ten years ago. Let me quickly show you this photo. That’ll be a shocker.

‏‏I’m happy to see it.

‏‏This was me ten years ago in 2007. A little different. This was me before Tony Robbins and I discovered Tony Robbins and I rebooted my life.

‏‏I got news for you, man. I mean, that’s a nice man.

‏‏Yes, but a very feminine man. I would never have landed the woman of my dreams, Orion, showing up like that guy.

‏‏I got it.

‏‏I’ll take a picture of this.

‏‏Please do because I use it regularly.

‏‏I know we have to wrap up this episode.

‏‏Wrap up the episode.

‏‏Thank you so much, Dr. Pat.

‏‏What did you get?

‏‏I’m changing the world in my own way through my podcast and you’re helping me do that, sharing this amazing information.

‏‏What did you learn today?

‏‏What did I learn today? Wow, a lot of stuff. Like the different types of relationships, the convenience, the codependence.

‏‏Codependence and the covenant.

‏‏The covenant.

‏‏Now, I even gave you all the documentation from Louisiana, isn’t that good?

‏‏Yeah. I’ll share that on Get Yourself Optimized website as well. Thank you. I know you’ve got your next appointment.


‏‏Listeners, visit Dr. Pat’s website.


‏‏We’ll catch you on the next episode of Get Yourself Optimized. This is your host Stephan Spencer signing off. Thank you.

Important Links

Checklist of Actionable Takeaways

?Know myself before deciding to seek out a serious partner. I need to be completely aware of my likes and dislikes before pursuing a relationship.

?Maintain a healthy balance in my relationship. One partner should be respected and the other should be cherished.

?Find out what type of relationship I am in to clearly understand my situation. The four types of relationships are convenient, codependent, covenant, and moneymaker.

?Observe my partner to see if they have narcissistic tendencies, which can harm the relationship in the long run.

?Learn more about masculine and feminine energy and understand that men and women possess both types. A relationship is like a yin and yang and masculine and feminine energy should balance each other.

?Create personal boundaries and set clear expectations with my partner about what I want out of the relationship.

?Check my pheromone compatibility with potential partners. One’s smell can determine if they are a possible mate.

?Make sure my partner is not too foreign or taboo to protect genetics and avoid any complications with offspring.

?Don’t hesitate to seek help and undergo therapy if I feel like I need some counseling with my partner. A lot of marriages have survived and thrived because of therapy.

?Go to and get the Lifetime of Love Series and the Want Training for Effective Living to start improving my approach to relationships today.

About Dr. Pat Allen

Dr. Pat Allen has devoted 42 years to helping men and women learn to express their wants and needs with integrity and honesty and to recognize and avoid the damaging ploys of intimidation and seduction.

Some of the things she teaches about male/female relationships have often been called politically incorrect… but they are scientifically accurate. And they work.

Join with her in the goal of committing yourself to a lifestyle of love and authentic communication in all your relationships, in your families and careers, in order to strengthen your relationship skills and enhance your self-esteem and success in life. Dr. Pat Allen’s dream is that you and your children may live in a love-filled world in which both men and women can attain their fullest potential.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.


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