AS Seen On

By: Stephan Spencer


What exists beyond our physical reality? Is it possible to connect with other realms of existence and the beings that inhabit them, including loved ones who have moved on from our world? These are esoteric questions, but some have made it their life’s work searching for answers to them. One of these people is Paul Selig, psychic, medium teacher, and award-winning author. Paul was educated at Yale and served on the faculty of NYU for over 25 years. In 1987, a spiritual experience left him with clairvoyant abilities, and he decided to dedicate his life to channeling the messages he hears telepathically. These unique powers have brought him massive success, including praises from top executives and celebrities.

Paul Selig
“Until we realize that there is one source and manifestation, we’re going to be operating with this illusion that we’re separate from one another and from all things.”
Paul Selig

Paul is a regular guest in the mainstream media and has appeared on Nightline, Fox News and The Biography Channel, to name a few. In his latest book, Beyond the Known, Paul channels the wisdom of higher realms via his connection with mysterious beings known as the guides, and invites his readers to move beyond the perceived limitations of their current reality. Whether you’re a skeptic or deeply spiritual, I invite you to join us on this fascinating journey where we tackle some of the big questions and tune our minds into a higher vibration and joy.


Paul, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Thanks for having me.

Beyond the Known by Paul Selig

Let’s talk about the book. It just came out, August 6th, the Beyond the Known: Realization, A Channeled Text. I’ve started digging into it. I’m really excited about it. There are great concepts there. I’ve got some questions from what I’ve read. We can get into that, but I would love to start off by, distinguishing for our listeners, what exactly is a channel versus a medium or a clairvoyant or a psychic? Because in your bio, it refers to you as being a channel and many of our listeners probably don’t understand what that means and the differences between that and those other words.

The way that I channel actually incorporates some of those other things that you mentioned. It’s a form of clairaudience. What I do when I channel is, I’m actually taking dictation from the guides that work with me. The books that come through me are all spoken and then transcribed. Realization, the one that just came out was dictated in front of the students over the course of maybe 30 days’ worth of sessions and went over a few months.

Channeling, as far as I’m concerned, is stenography. It’s a form of dictation and it’s a spiritual work. Clairaudience is a psychic ability and I can use that in other ways. But I think of myself as a radio. When I’m channeling, the radio station that I’m playing or the guide that comes through and teaches through me when I’m working psychically, I may be playing the radio station of the people I’m working with. I have this odd ability to step into other people and hear them or the people in their lives. You think of me as a switchboard, channeling is the guide, and the broadcast that I happen to be in.

Wow, that’s quite a gift. You aren’t born this way, I guess. There’s an event that happened that caused you to step into this gift. Could you share what happened?

It was a process. I’m assuming what you were referring to is this thing that happened when I was 25. There was this thing happening that people were calling the harmonic convergence. I heard people were going to be waking up. I had just come to this belief that there may be something more and something that you might call God or a higher power. I went up to the roof of the building that I lived in at that time and I asked to be woken up. I did that thinking, “Why wouldn’t it happen?” I had an experience of energy. I don’t know whether I was just hyperventilating up there on the roof, I may never know it, but I started seeing little lights around people after that. It was the beginning of an opening. It was my first palpable experience of energy.

The clairaudience kicked in more readily. There were a couple of things that I was told which sort of shocked me early on. That’s how I began on a spiritual path to begin with. I heard a voice telling me to get my act together and I was so shocked that I listened to it. The clairaudience just comes in stages. I studied a form of energy healing when I was maybe 30 or so. I was volunteering at a center in downtown Manhattan. It was the height of the AIDS epidemic and it was something that I could do. I found that when I had my hands on people’s bodies, I began to hear things from them, and the people would confirm the information that I was receiving. That was the beginning of being able to trust the information.

Until we realize that there is one source and manifestation, we’re going to be operating with this illusion that we’re separate from one another and from all things. Share on X

I had a group that met in my apartment for about 18 years. It was a small group. People would come and go. That’s where the channeling really began in earnest. About 10 years ago, the guides began dictating these books through me in session. That’s been the evolution of it but no, I wasn’t born with it. I’m still sort of confounded by the whole experience. Some days I can’t say that I really understand it. Perhaps, I never will fully. I just know that it’s the experience. It happens and for whatever reason these books that were spoken hold up under scrutiny. They’re sort of astonishing in their way. It’s a very consistent teaching over seven volumes that are in print and eighth is already completed and ready to go.

Yeah, that’s amazing. Your publisher is a very well-respected publisher, St. Martin’s Press. It’s part of Penguin, correct?

No. It’s part of Macmillan. The first six books were done by Tarcher which is part of the Penguin group. This is, I’m pleased to say, my first book with St. Martin’s essential which is a new imprint at Macmillan.

Very cool. You’ve used this term clairaudience multiple times. I actually never heard that term; I’ve heard of clairvoyance. Clairaudience, is that something that’s just as common as clairvoyance? Can you distinguish that for us?

Clairaudience is a clear hearing. There are different ways that people access information. Many people who work psychically are accessing information in multiple ways, some people have a primary strength. My primary strength is hearing and then feeling which is clairsentience. I can sort of step into other people and feel what it’s like to be them, may begin to resemble them, and take on mannerisms. I can feel that my body is one of the ways that I access information through clairsentience. When I’m hearing, it’s auditory. It’s coming in language or words. Clairvoyance is a clear sight. That’s what people know of mostly is a psychic gift because it’s a word that made it more into the mainstream, perhaps, than some of the others.

Got it. When the guides are communicating with you, are you able to converse with them? Or you just kind of tune into that radio station and it’s just more of a one way?

It’s a good question. It’s a bit of both. When I’m channeling a book or when the guides are teaching a workshop or delivering a lecture, it’s kind of like I climb into the backseat of the car, I turn the wheel over, and let them drive. My job is to keep repeating what I’m hearing as I hear it. I’m hearing phrase8. I’m whispering the phrase and the next one’s coming through. I’m busy taking dictation but my consciousness is actually receded. When I’m working physically, it’s like I’m sitting in the front seat of the car next to them and we can go back and forth a bit.

I can be in the conversation. I always say, I’m not the best reader for myself but I do get direction from them in a moment. Usually, what I receive is in a moment and for the moment. My guides are pretty big on not taking action based on fear. I do get some counsel on that. Both are true. The guides I worked with are teachers. When they’re teaching, they’re lecturing. If I have a problem with what they’re saying or I have a concern about the teaching, I’ve been known to interrupt them, they’ve been known to respond. Much of that happens in the course of the book dictation and many of my questions wind up in the books.

Wow. This is just a really an incredible gift and it’s a gift to humanity, really, to be able to receive this information, and share it with so many people. It’s quite a responsibility. Do you feel a weight to it? Is it just light and just feels really quite natural and kind of easy?

The process of channeling, I’m used to it now. I don’t think that much about it. I close my eyes, I sit back, I’ll hear one phrase repeated incessantly. As I give that one phrase voice, everything else tumbles out on top of it. I just keep saying what I’m hearing until the guides I work with say, “Stop now, please,” and “Thank you.” That’s it.

Stay open with the divine possibilities this world has to offer. Guides come in different forms and only those who are enlightened can be aware.

I’m used to the process of channeling. I have an odd relationship with the phenomenon. I was a college teacher for 25 years. I taught at NYU. I ran a graduate program at Goddard College in Vermont. I wasn’t looking to be known for this work. I don’t understand it. I understand that it’s an odd ability. But if I were to take on the idea of, “Oh my god, it’s a responsibility on behalf of humanity.” I think I could never do it again. I mean, my big concerns are, I’d like to get a partner. I want my dog to live forever. I want to find a nice place to live and a place that I enjoy being. My concerns tend to be fairly practical.

The cosmic concerns in my own spiritual life, which continues to be developed and challenged by this material is another issue. I find that I’m not always the best student of the work that comes through me although I would like to be. But there’s nothing in the teachings that come through me that are terribly convenient to what I want to hear. They’re very challenging teachings. The more I accept the information that they’re bringing through, they’re teaching mysticism. They’re not teaching a happy new age philosophy. They’re talking about the practical application of spiritual concepts that are accompanied by very direct and very palpable energy that even people reading the books report feeling. That’s been going on with all of the books. There’s a fair amount of phenomena associated with these things. The guides say they’re working with the reader as they read the book and people are reporting these experiences that they’re having while reading them.

I guess the good news is I’m not the author, I’m the channel, and I’m curious. But it’s a little bit odd having your name on a series of books that you really didn’t write. I don’t feel that sense of ownership of the material that I might have had I were the author.

That’s fascinating. What are some of the reports that you’ve heard from readers? Things that have happened to them beyond the ordinary while they’ve been reading?

It’s been going on since the beginning. In the very first book, which was published in 2010, the guide said that they would be working with the readers. The book came out and there was no fanfare, there was no publicist. Suddenly, it was on the shelves and people begin finding it and then sharing it. Reviews started coming in on Amazon which is really interesting. People were saying, “I’m reading this book and my body is vibrating. I’m reading this book and I’m seeing auras.” My favorite was, “I’m reading this book and my husband is changing,” which I thought was kind of funny.

There are people working with these texts—and they’re so many of them now—they post online about their experiences. I do peek in on those conversations sometimes. Recently, people have been talking about how they’re seeing the guides show up. There’ve been people that have experienced healing through the readings of the books, fallen asleep with the audiobooks on and awaken to feel all these energies coming to them at a place where they were having challenges. There’s a fair amount. I think the most important thing beyond the phenomena is that people’s lives seem to be improved. Their spiritual experiences are increasing. They’re having their own experience of the divine.

You see, I’m not a spiritual teacher, I’m not a guru, and I have no desire to be either of those things. One of the things about having the palpable experience of the energy of the guides seemed to come with is that people can have their own experience with it. Once you had your own experience with it, they don’t need to defer to anybody, they’re in their own knowing. Once you’re in your own knowing, I think everything begins to change.

These guides that are giving you this wisdom, is it a collection of angels, or spiritual teachers from the past, or is it the divine, the Creator? Who are these guides?

They call themselves teachers, they call themselves ascended masters, they call themselves  Melchizedek, which is a priesthood and an old one, I experienced them as teachers. At times, they’ve called themselves the true self. The true self in your teachings is what they call Christ. The Christ—the guide says—is the aspect of the creator that can be realized in material form. When you’re speaking as the Christ, they’re speaking, I believe, as the consciousness of the Christ at that level of tone, or vibration, or lineage.

My visual experience is limited. There’s one guide that I’ve seen on a few occasions in mediation or under hypnosis which is quite wonderful for me because I’ve been channeling for a while before I saw him. He felt and seen just as I experienced him energetically and visually. My experience with them is that they’re teachers and they’re here to support us. My favorite definition that they’ve given themselves is, “We are who you become when you know who you are.” Beyond the masquerade of personality at a level of truth and essence, they say there’s a true self, they call it the eternal self, the Christ Himself, all the different things in different books, but the meaning is the same.

But it’s the aspect of the Creator that is individual that is in each of us, that they say, is seeking his own revelation and articulation through us. They call it the word. The word they say is the action of the Creator. Everything they say is the divine in articulation and in form. Our realization of who we are as of that source allows us to realize the inherent divine in all things. That’s what they’re teaching. They’re teaching the kingdom which they say is the realization of the inherent divine that exists, and matter, and beyond. Who they are is that. They’re operating at that level.

How one serves, is how one is fully realized as the true self. Share on X

I’m not a scholar. I actually don’t read other people’s books—with a very few exceptions that I want to—but I try to keep the teachings that come through me pure and unfiltered with the language of the time or the zeitgeist. I buy this stuff and I don’t read it. But there are scholars who are looking at these books and having their own experiences with them. At times, some people call them Gnostic teachings. There are people to believe that they are Hermetic teaching because they’re actually speaking to the divinity of form. I don’t know that it matters. I do know that it’s an experience and it’s an experience that I’m continuing to have for better and for worse. As I’ve said, it’s not a comfortable teaching to the ego or to the ideas that we may hold about who we are in the world and who we should be. In fact, they’re somewhat contrary to most of the things that I was brought up to believe.

What would be an example of something that is contrary to a belief that wasn’t instilled in you when you were a child?

That my worth has to do with anything outside of myself, that acquiescing to a cultural paradigm or going into a collective agreement with what reality should actually limit me from accessing a higher reality that may be present all the time. That I am my career, or my gender, or my age. All those ideas that we operate with and we self identify through. The guides say that everything is an octave. They use musical terms. They say, “We’re operating in a shared octave of a collective agreement. It has its own highs and lows.” But they say everything, every song, every note can be played in a higher octave. What they’re doing in their teaching is they say, they’re lifting us beyond this false ceiling or barrier that we’ve become accustomed to, and had been in agreement with, and confirmed which is the belief in separation from our own true nature. That also must include the true nature of everybody else. The divine that must be present in all things, or they say, or nothing at all. They’re transposing the music that we are, the vibration, and tone to play in a higher octave. They say that by doing that, you’re actually able to lift what you encounter, your consciousness perceives in a different way, and elevates what you are in relationship to.

I Am the Word by Paul Selig

It’s really quite something and I’m challenged by it. But I have to say, when I go back to the very first book that they dictated, I Am the Word. They said this thing early on, I think it was even in their first few pages, they said something like, “The Christ in man,” meaning humanity is an event that happens. I thought, “That’s a nice idea.” I was raised an atheist so I don’t have a lot of baggage around this stuff. That’s really interesting and I assumed that it meant, “Oh, we get to be a bit more kind to one another, a little more spiritual,” whatever that meant. What I’m seeing now is they’re talking about the realization of the true nature of being.

The inherent divine and that they say is who you are and who you’ve always been but you. We’ve all been operating in a kind of collective denial about our true nature. This isn’t like a new age teaching that’s saying, “You are God.” They’re saying, “You are our God because how could you not be?” And that includes your hair, or your breath, or your fingernails, and everything you see. Because they say there is one note playing in the universe that is actually expressing itself in all of these infinite ways. Until we realize that there is one source and manifestation, we’re going to be operating with this belief or what they would say an illusion that we’re separate from one another and from all things. In fact, we’re not, we’re just another expression of it.

It seems like there’s a lot of similarities in this message from your guides to the message delivered by Esther Hicks from Abraham. Are you familiar with Abraham Hicks?

I know who she is. I haven’t read her work. The only channeled stuff I’d actually read, maybe there was some stuff in the early ‘80s I looked at, but I read half a set book when I was a graduate student but didn’t finish it and I thought it was fascinating. I know of the Hicks’ work, people reference it all the time, but I’m not outside of seeing a few clicks on my social media feed when they roll by. I haven’t really read her and that’s only because I don’t read other channeled work. That’s just been how I operate. It’s not that I don’t respect it, I just don’t know it.

Right. You want to keep the message pure and not influenced by other work.

Yeah. That’s it.

Got it. Let’s talk about some of these concepts because they’re so profound and there is a lot of similarities in what you’re describing to music, and the science of sound and vibration, resonance, frequency, all those sorts of terms, coherence. Let’s start with frequency. This idea of you have a vibrational frequency and what you vibrate at is what you attract into your life. If you want a more abundant life, just raise your vibration, right?

Yes and no. The guides teach, yes, accurately, it’s true. But what aspect of the self is claiming and what is an abundant life look like? The guides are actually teaching something a little bit different. Because they are teaching raising vibration, but they’re talking about realizing the true self, and that the true self isn’t necessarily bound by the requirements that the personality self inherited. The guides I work with say, “There’s nothing wrong with the house on the hills. Somebody gets to live there, but why do you want it?” If you want it because that’s your idea of success or you want to be the envy of your neighbors, you may well be creating fear. The guide says, “The action of fear is to claim more fear.

In order to be highly spiritual, one must let go of the materialistic way of life.

What the guide’s actually teaching, which I suspect maybe a little bit different than others is that as you align to the higher, you move into a place of reception and congruence where in fact your needs are met. That’s not through a kind of passivity that’s coming through an agreement to the source, the source of all things, as you’re saying, and that the self that you are as of that. I don’t think the guides have said this because they don’t have anything against money or success, but I think how we define success in our culture is probably a little bit skewered.

I have practices, a reader, and people come to me and they want to know how they serve and one of the things the guides I work with claims, “It’s an atonement.” I know who I am in truth, I know what I am in truth, I know how I serve in truth. And they want to know how they serve and they’re all asking about what their career is as if your career must be your service. The guides say, “How one serves, is how one is fully realized as the true self, and that it’s your expression that becomes your service. What you call true, yourself, that level of agreement, is what you require to go through.” I suspect that’s where they’re taking us in terms of raising the vibration.

It’s not about getting things. I had a list of things that I wanted to achieve when I was 25 years old. I was a playwright, I was a year out of Yale, I was getting produced in New York and London, I was getting my picture in the papers, I had the whole list of what I thought I should have to make me happy and I wasn’t. In fact, I was in trouble. It was an interesting time. What I did in some ways was fall through a trapdoor into another potential for how to live a life. It was the last thing that I expected would ever happen to somebody like me.

I’m less invested in the getting of things. I think prosperity consciousness is important, but prosperity consciousness finally is knowing what the source of all things is. If I think that somebody or something is going to complete me or give me what I need, I have moved into a kind of idolatry and the way beyond that is to realize the source which can operate through anyone and everything, and in fact, does. I don’t know if I’m answering your question well or if I missed the point of it. Yes, it is raising your vibration but I think the intent might be a little bit different.

This is an important distinction that if you’re working from a place of the personality self or what’s also referred to in the book as the small self, that you’re going to get a lower class of abundance than if you go into that divine self. That’s a different perspective.

I wouldn’t call it a lower class of abundance. I think we’re operating from different places. There’s nothing wrong with abundance. That’s not the point of it. The real good news is—according to the guides—you’re going to learn through everything you create anyway. This is all an opportunity to learn. Then what the guide says is, “The millionaire and the panhandler on the street are both learning the same lessons, finally.” In their lessons of abundance, they’re learning them in different ways. It’s we, you and I, and the rest of us that makes one of them higher or better than the other. In fact, that’s just simply not true because for that to be true, that would mean how much money you have to make you more worthwhile than somebody else. And they say God or spirit doesn’t work that way at all. All are equal and are deeply loved. It can’t be any other way. If I’m only as good as what people think of me or how I appear in public, I’m going to have a hard time.

I complain about this, and it’s silly, but I do. I don’t channel the way people say I should channel. I don’t look like I should look. I have my ideas of who I should be that don’t necessarily conform with how I’m expressing right now in this form. But if I were to wait until I was all those things, or put all my effort into being what I thought I should be, I would be missing the point about, I suppose, about what it means to be alive and to know the self as worthy of God. We are the ones that make these distinctions and we’re often making them through some collective idea of what should be and what we should want and what we should aspire to, which is ridiculous. It can hold true. Finally, it can’t. We put our time and our investment into these things that are finally so temporary. Our ideas that beauty or success or these things or attention–we can learn through all that. There are great lessons to learn through all these things, but we can also in different ways. Nothing is wasted. That’s the good news. It’s all a gift.

Right. We can learn in different ways. You’re referring to the upper room, that place of being stepping into our divine self?

The Book of Freedom by Paul Selig

That’s what they’re teaching. I think it’s the game-changer in some ways. I’m still adjusting to the fact that this is what they’re teaching, they delivered six books. At the end of the sixth book, which they call it The Book of Freedom which was in many ways the idea of moving beyond the collective of what we should be and want and all those things. They talk about it as if we are punching a hole into this false ceiling that we’ve been using to protect our idea of reality and suddenly, beginning to encounter what exists beyond it.

But at the end of that book, they invited all the readers to cross the threshold and they were saying, “Welcome, welcome, welcome. We’re going to welcome you to your new life.” I’m going, “Okay, what is this now?” And then the second book actually begins in what they call the Upper Room, the next book, the first book of this new series which is the one that just came out Beyond the Known: Realization. They’re teaching the entire course, the entire book from what they call the Upper Room which is the higher octave of expression, and they’re teaching us what it is and how to lift to it in this book.

It’s a trippy teaching for me, the energy of the Upper Room is palpable again. They invoke it, the guides invoke it in workshops and I do them all the time and they bring everybody to the Upper Room and we can all feel the shift in frequency in our own fields, in the collective field that we are operating in. It’s really quite something. The interesting thing is when you’re there, when you’re operating at that place, there’s no fear. The guides say fear doesn’t exist that that strata, that level of vibration. If you want to be afraid, you can do it, but you have to go back downstairs. The big challenge seems to be that everything that I know and had been taught was agreed to below the Upper Room. The idea now is, “Well, okay, you showed it to us, how do we get to stay there and maintain it?” Which seems to be what they’re beginning to teach now which is its own challenge in teaching.

What you damn, damns you back. And what you bless, blesses you in return. Share on X

If you’re trying to solve a problem, let’s say, climate change or the extinction of species like a mass extinction of that level, and you’re doing it from that lower octave, which is the Upper Room, you’re doing it with your hands tied behind your back? Or you’re doing it in a way that’s not maybe as impactful? I’m hoping that there’s a better way to solve the climate crisis and the extinction crisis and so forth by us all entering the Upper Room and coming up with something that is much more inspired, and powerful, and effective. Or maybe it all doesn’t matter because we are all just ephemeral in our incarnation and that this is just one big playroom for us to learn. I don’t know.

I don’t know either. What I suspect they would say is, it’s not about finding another way to fix it from the Upper Room because the guides don’t teach fixing. They teach realization. What they say is, everything is energy and the realization of the inherent divine that must be in all things actually lives what you see or experiencing to the higher octave where you’re aligning from if you’re in the Upper Room. The idea basically is, you’re lifting to the strata, this level of vibration, they call it the Upper Room and there’s atonement for, eventually sometimes the guides will just say, “Claim I am in the Upper Room,” and you can feel the energetic shift. But there’s preparatory work to be able to feel and hold that.

From that place, they say you can lift what you encounter and this must include things like climate change or anything or everyone that we see. The challenge is, you can’t lift anything that you’re damning angry at or frightened of. Because if you’re experiencing any of those things, you’re down there with it. You’re in collusion with the negativity that you’re claiming. The guides will say things like, “You can’t lift the evil man to the Upper Room because you have made him evil. And by making him evil, you’ve aligned to that level of vibration.” The challenge seems to be to release the ideas that things have accrued, and the names things have been given to realize that at a fundamental level, everything must be sourced in its expression in one way or another. When you realize that, the lifting occurs automatically, and you’re moving it to a new coherence.

They talk about this as alchemy and recreation. It’s what they’re teaching now. Now, they’re talking about how matter is changed through our agreement with the inherent divine. Because they work with people, big groups, they have people work with each other, you can feel what’s happening when they do this, when you claim the inherent divine in another. It’s extremely palpable. They’re saying this is actually happening through one’s encounter with the world. When you begin to operate at the level that they’re speaking to, they say in some ways you become a portal or a doorway to lifting what you encounter to the higher field and that is inclusive of everything you see.

The interesting thing is, the guide say that you’re in alignment to everything that you see. It’s not just your personal life where people say, “You create this, you create that.” The guide says, “If you can see it, your consciousness is in alignment to it. Exclusive of nothing.” Consciousness is always informing matter. The level of consciousness you bring to what you see is always informing it. The simple illustration they give is, “What you damn, damns you back. And what you bless, blesses you in return.” If we’re damning something, we’re going into a lower alignment; when we’re blessing it, we’re realizing the inherent God within it, within a situation, within a human being, within a circumstance, within the ecology, we can actually impact it through consciousness and lift it to a higher place.

The only thing we were talking about figuring it out because the guides say, “Figuring it out is the small self.” Still, we do our best to that level. But they say, “When you’re moving to your knowing, your true knowing.” True knowing they say is the divine self. They say, “When you know something, there is never a question attached. When you think there’s always a question.” The idea of moving into solution, at a level of knowing could be enormously impactful. But what we do instead is we do our best with the tools that we have which tend to be coming from the same level of consciousness that created the problems that we’re trying to address. The guides, what I suspect say, “You gotta move higher than that and lift it to the higher.” Okay.

You can lift not just one individual, or your friends and family, but you can lift the entire planet. You could lift all species, you could life the climate.

Yup. Through the realization of the inherent divine.

Through coherence with the source.

Yes. Exactly right.

Once you know you are of it, you can’t exclude anything else from it. It’s not the challenge, it is at the level of personality; it’s not magic, it’s realization.

Wow. That’s a game-changer if you can really stay there, if you don’t get sucked into the judgment of damning the perpetrators or whatever, and you see it all as being part of the light, and having blessings and you could start a new phase of evolution.

That’s what they’re teaching. I’m glad taking dictation, I understand what they’re saying, I’m confounded by a lot of it, I’ve experienced a lot of it that I know that there is merit to it. The implications are enormous. It’s not a teaching of what people call spiritual bypassing, it’s not pretending things are okay when they’re not. It’s none of those things. It’s not about liking people. It’s about realizing the inherent divine.

Our true purpose in this life is to be of service. When we bless others, we get blessed in return.

The guide says very simply, “What you put in darkness or who you put in darkness calls you to that darkness.” If you want to learn through that, you can. They say, “The action of fear is to claim more fear.” Every time you or I or any of us makes a choice in fear, we’re getting more of the same. They say just look back at your life, look at the last choice you made because you’re afraid to see what it got you. You turn on the TV for half an hour, you’re told everything you should be terrified of, and then you begin to move in accordance with that. It’s not easy. The guides have said in some of their teachings, this is actually the last era of fear that we’re experiencing now. It’s the mandate of fear, to maintain its idea. And the guide says, “All things are of source, God, whatever you want to call it, including fear. Fear doesn’t know it. It’s just denying it.”

Can this work? I think people have to work with the teaching and find out how it works for them. I’m in it too as a student. I can speak about the teachings, I’m not the poster boy for them, somebody else maybe. That’s what I can offer, the game changer. But it’s not a new game change. I think if you go back to some of the Christian mystics, and probably what the guides say it’s the same in every religion. It doesn’t really matter. The same inherent truth is present. You probably find the same basic proofs being spoken.

Yup. I’ve been studying Kabbalah, which is the mystical branch of Judaism. There’s a lot of this in that. I’m guessing there’s a lot in Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam. Speaking of fear in particular, something that really struck me when I was reading your book, or the guides’ book, is talking about how objects have this energetic signature. I’m not using the right terminology here, but it’s like when you buy something out of fear or you bring something into your life because of fear, that fear is attached to that object until you transform it. That’s the message that I got out of reading something on the first 20-some pages or something. Something about fear and how there’s this energy associated with the thing because you bought it, you acquired it, or you built it from a state of fear.

Yeah. I don’t recall the teachings specifically that you’re referencing. It doesn’t sound unlike them. But the idea of having to have the best cow from the block, yeah, you’re stuck with that. And then what does it mean to maintain the best cows in the block. Basically, if your identity and your sense of self-worth is dependent upon that, what happens when somebody ‘dozed the bigger house next door. Then we’re always sort of reinforcing the idea of what should be.

The guides are really talking about should lately. In their most recent teachings is as an attachment to outcome-based upon prescription, and all of that prescription is inherited, “I should be successful, I should be this kind of a man or that kind of a man.” Finally, says who? We’re just buying into this template that we’ve been in agreement to because we’re born into it. We assume that that’s the way the world must be because that’s what it’s been presented to us as. That’s inclusive of all of the fear that we experience and see. We’re taught what to be afraid of, and we agree to it, or who, even worse.

Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg

Yeah. Speaking of the word should, I learn this from something called Nonviolent Communication or NVC, taught by Marshall Rosenberg, and he says that, “Should is the most violent word in the English language.

That’s great. I’ve never heard that. That’s great.

Let’s talk about time because we have this sense of past, present, and future. Is it an illusion? Is it all happening at the same time? Are there multiple dimensions? Can we, for example, pray for our ancestors and have them have a different outcome even though it happened in the past?

I don’t know. They talk some about this, they’re just getting into this more in the most recent books. They talk about time as a construct that is useful to us, but it’s a construct that we’ve aligned to. They actually say when you go to the Upper Room, you begin to operate in eternity which is clearly the present moment is an eternity and always will be, and only can be. They say in one of their earlier books, I think it was the Book of Truth, they talked about healing our agreements to—I can’t remember what it was, something rather—and I did say in that book, “And as you’re doing this, you’re actually healing it for all time.” That was the first time I got an idea that what we were doing here might be bypassing that construct.

Book of Truth by Paul Selig

When they described time, they’ve talked about this like stacked plates, that can be moved in one direction or another. They don’t speak to anyone of your time except to speak to our investment in it, we know ourselves through time. They say, “God or source, or the true self,” whatever you want to call it, “knows itself beyond time, but may know itself through time in our experience of it.” I do believe personally that you can realize something and bypass time, and I think all prayers is actually doing that. You’re actually moving beyond it.

This odd thing that I can do where I step into other people, it’s the psychic stuff I do, which seems to bypass time and form. I used to think that if I was tuning into somebody in China and becoming them, I was traveling at the speed of light all the way to China. It was actually a physicist who told me, “You’re not traveling across the world, you’re actually stepping in a doorway. You’re traveling dimensionally.” I do believe that there are multiple octaves, that we can have multiple experiences and we may be having them all simultaneously. I really don’t know.

This is stuff that they are beginning to address in their books. I suppose I may be the obstacle for some of this because I get uptight around these teachings. If they’re going to deliver them through me, they’ve got a really rescind me, beyond the back seat of the car, they’ve got to put me in the trunk for me not to interrupt this stuff because I have a million questions around it when they get into this. But in the book that’s coming out next August 2020, they’re speaking more to this.

When you fear, you judge. When you judge, you fear. Share on X

Awesome. Looking forward to that. I totally get that time is a construct. I feel it in my bones. I learned from Dan Sullivan this concept of the horizon is a construct. It’s a mental construct that doesn’t exist. There is no point where the sky and the earth finally meet. That’s our brains trying to extrapolate and make sense out of what it’s seeing. If you think of time and that same manner, we’re just trying to wrap our heads around something that is beyond our normal way of thinking. I don’t know if this is true or not, but supposedly, before the indigenous tribes in America saw ships, they were blind to them. The ships came and they couldn’t see them because they couldn’t imagine that such a thing, and so they didn’t see them. They got snuck up on.

It’s true in a very simple way. The human energy feel is very visible to some people. I can teach people how to see it, and I often do in my workshops, it’s not my best skill. Sometimes, there are people in the workshops that didn’t know they could see and/or they’re seeing the chakras spinning on the people that they’re looking at, which I think is quite wonderful and extraordinary. It wasn’t that those things weren’t there, it’s that they were veiled. We’ve been operating with this idea and these beliefs which are really born in agreement.

I know what time is through what I’ve been taught, we all agree, but today is Thursday because that’s what the calendar says. We have these ideas that we give power to. I think if we moved to the possibility that there is more to be known beyond the ways we’ve been taught to receive reality, we’d then have access to them. It’s not to discount time, it’s just to know ourselves beyond the singularity of that idea.

Yeah. When you say things are born in agreement, if we don’t like something, but we agree that it exists, we create it in a way.

If we don’t like something we agree it exists, I don’t know. What we don’t like is generally born in a construct or application of morality. We’re still a culture that likes to execute people in the Town Square, we just might do it on social media now. We believe we like our villains, we like our self-righteousness. The guide says that I work with say, your self-righteousness is always the small self and nobody has ever been redeemed by being damned or suffered in the Town Square.

We have work to do culturally, I think, in how we treat one another. Enormous work to be honest with you. I mean, the fact that we are even having discussions in this country about the worth of human beings that come from other places is astonishing to me. These are conversations that stuck in a belief in separation that we deny the value of human life. The guides I work would say there is no one life that is any more or less valuable than the next. That’s the crap that we do. When we look at the things that we’ve inherited, we’ve got a whole bunch of stuff that we have the opportunity to learn through and move beyond, but we’re going to have to rise to that occasion.

Yeah. Our words are very powerful. When we speak things whether essentially like an evil speech from a place of self-righteousness, we manifest darkness.

I don’t know that we manifest darkness, I think we go into agreement with the darkness that’s there. I don’t know that we’re conjuring it.

You’re right.

The Book of Mastery by Paul Selig

I think we might be aligning to it. We’ve been given great power and choice. When the guides say what you damn, damns you back. There’s a teaching in the Book of Mastery, which was the fourth book they did, they had the students going up a mountain and they say, “Here’s a cave.” And now you want to go into the cave. They say, “In that cave is the one person you never want to see again as long as you live.” Your opportunity is to lead that person out of the cave. The question was, “Well, why?” They say when you put that person in the darkness, that they then call you too. It’s not about forgiving them as much as releasing yourself from the bondage of unforgiveness, or again, the idea of what you damn, damns you back. But we’re encouraged to do this culture and we wonder why we’re in so much trouble.

I just think that there have to be other ways. According to the guides, there are I can say that I don’t have my own issues around judgment and fear, and my desire to be right, I have all those things. I’m not beyond them yet. I do suspect that I’m more aware of them and do my best not to be acting upon them because I know what they give me. This isn’t new stuff. The idea is in the Lord’s prayer, “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” It’s really about unbinding ourselves from what’s tying us to darkness or to shadow and that’s blame and hatred and fear. Fear tends to be what’s operating beneath the blame and the hatred. What you fear, you judge; what you judge, you fear.

What are some ways that our listeners can get past the judgment and the fear to elevate and go into that Upper Room?

I don’t know that I have the answer. I can go to the guides which I haven’t done on this show yet. I should just say that if I do go to the guides, I whisper the words and repeat them, and we’ll see if they want to say anything. If they wish to know what to do, they must comprehend the world they see as everyone’s source as of one source regardless of what they think of it.

There is one source and your agreement of that will transform your life. If you lift another in love, you have lifted yourself. If you deny love to another, you have condemned yourself in that act. The decree to love one another was the decree to know the divine, that must be an expression in all humankind. Go into an agreement to that and watch your life transform. Do not act in fear. It is a terrible teacher if you must know. You may learn through it if you wish, but there is a higher teacher, it is to be found within. You may call it the divine self, the Christ itself, the truth of your being, it matters not to us, but honor it and you will be taught by it directly.

The guides don’t teach fixing. They teach realization. Share on X

Wow. Thank you so much. I got goosebumps all over. That was powerful. I’m going to have to relisten to that many times. Thank you. Thank you to the guides.

My pleasure.

I don’t know what else to do now. Shall we maybe share with our listeners where they could go to learn more, maybe take some workshops, live streams on Wednesday nights that you do? Lots of opportunities to learn from the guides so maybe we could share some of that.

Sure. The easiest way is to go to my website which is just my name. It’s and there’s an events calendar there, and there are links to the books and the information on the livestreams, I channel almost every Wednesday night. I do a series that begins every four or five weeks so people can come in at any time. They don’t have to come at the beginning, because it’s really an ongoing teaching. I do workshops all around the world. Coming up in the Fall, there is a retreat in Boone, North Carolina and there is one in Pacific Grove, California. Usually, I’m in somebody’s city nearby at some point. Just check the calendar and the information is there.

Thank you so much, Paul. Listeners, now I hope you make some shift and take something out of this rather than just listen to it with passive ears, you actually make a change. This is Stephan Spencer, your host signing off. We’ll catch you on the next episode of Get Yourself Optimized.

Important Links

Checklist of Actionable Takeaways

?Keep an open mind on beliefs and perceptions that are beyond me. Embrace the diversity we have in this world. This new knowledge will allow me to form deeper connections with different cultures.

?Let go of the material world and focus on my spiritual self. When my spirit is nourished, I will become more content and self-sufficient.

?Don’t resist my true nature and calling. I should accept my destiny and use the gifts I have to help others.

?Create a practice or routine that will keep nourishing and refreshing my spiritual health so that I don’t lose sight of the bigger picture.

?Develop a more heightened consciousness of the guides the universe is sending by simply being more aware of what’s happening around me.

?Let my spiritual journey elevate the quality of my life by applying the principles I learn in my daily activities.

?Take every life experience, whether it’s good or bad as an opportunity to learn. Whether what you go through is good or bad, in the end, it will only sharpen your instincts.

?Spend time in prayer and meditation for a few minutes each day to stay aligned with my spiritual power.

?Share the guiding light with others and help them find their way, especially if they are lost.

?Grab a copy of Paul Selig’s book, Beyond the Known: Realization (The Beyond the Known Trilogy).

About Paul Selig

Paul Selig is considered one of the foremost spiritual channels working today. His work has been featured on ABC News Nightline, Fox News, The Biography Channel series The UneXplained, and more. His six channeled books, including I Am the Word and his most recent, The Book of Freedom, are published by Tarcher/Penguin. Paul received his master’s degree from Yale and served on the faculty of NYU for more than 25 years before devoting himself fully to his work as a channel. He leads workshops and livestream seminars internationally.

Disclaimer: The medical, fitness, psychological, mindset, lifestyle, and nutritional information provided on this website and through any materials, downloads, videos, webinars, podcasts, or emails is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical/fitness/nutritional advice, diagnoses, or treatment. Always seek the help of your physician, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, certified trainer, or dietitian with any questions regarding starting any new programs or treatments, or stopping any current programs or treatments. This website is for information purposes only, and the creators and editors, including Stephan Spencer, accept no liability for any injury or illness arising out of the use of the material contained herein, and make no warranty, express or implied, with respect to the contents of this website and affiliated materials.


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