In this Episode
- [02:20]Adrien recounts how a series of unexpected connections led him to join the Maverick mastermind, where a shared passion for entrepreneurship, personal growth, and meaningful relationships.
- [05:26]Adrien shares how his journey from corporate lawyer to energy healer began with witnessing unexplained healing firsthand, leading him to study energy work.
- [12:22]Adrien explains how learning from diverse mentors helped him build an energy healing toolbox that emphasizes grounding spiritual experiences in practical understanding.
- [17:56]Adrien explains how he combined insights from Chinese medicine, chiropractic, and indigenous energy traditions to develop a holistic healing approach.
- [20:55]Stephan shares a spiritual clearing technique he learned from another guest and asks Adrien for his perspective on working safely with negative energies by invoking divine or angelic assistance instead of engaging directly.
- [29:08]Adrien explains why he believes spiritual work should never be driven by financial gain.
- [36:04]Adrien explains how applying spiritual principles to finance means treating money as neutral energy, combining disciplined action with humility, discernment, and trust that true abundance unfolds through both personal effort and a greater purpose.
- [45:20]Adrien introduces the concept of collective energy, explaining how shared human consciousness influences everything from cultures to financial markets.
- [50:43]Adrien discusses uncertain memories of past lives and explains that true intuitive insights are best discerned by remaining neutral and evaluating whether they consistently align with lived experience.
- [53:04]Adrien reflects on his experience with psilocybin, emphasizing the importance of approaching altered states without expectations, and concludes by inviting listeners to connect with him directly for free energy healing sessions.
- [56:33]Adrien closes by encouraging listeners to trust the often difficult path of spiritual growth, reminding them that losing faith is sometimes part of the journey and that perseverance ultimately leads to deeper alignment.
Adrien, it’s so great to have you on the show.
Thank you, Stephan. My pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, we know each other through Maverick, an amazing mastermind run by Yanik Silver, who was a past guest on this podcast. And I’m curious to hear how you got hooked up with the Maverick mastermind, and I’d also love for you to share your superhero origin story with us.
So the Maverick thing is really part of the journey of life where you lift a stone, you find something that takes you to another stone, and so on. So I started, maybe 20 years ago, following the work of a guy who was active in online marketing and financial research. And I liked his work for this. So nothing to do with Maverick; he was not a member or anything.
And something like three, four years ago, that guy told us, well, one of my greatest friends is organizing a trip to Norway to create a Viking trip experience, a Viking initiation. So I thought it was really interesting, and it was also a great way to meet new kinds of people. And I went. And on the last day of the trip, as I was sharing a ride back to the airport with one of the members, we really got to talk in more detail and became super friends. And that guy was organizing the mastermind, too.
So a couple of years later, after we shared other events, he told me, “Well, you know what? I just joined the Maverick group, and I think you’d be a good fit. It’s all about entrepreneurship, personal development.” And you know, I talked to Yanik, had an interview over Zoom, and the vibe was there from the start. And a few months later I was on Necker, and now I’m here talking with you.
Yeah. So Necker Island, Richard Branson‘s Island. And so Yanik has organized several trips to hang out with Sir Richard. I haven’t been there, but I’ve been to the adjacent island, Mosquito Island, which Sir Richard also owns, but you know, there are other houses on there belonging to other people, and we were on one of the resort properties there. It was beautiful. It was just there, I think, about six months ago. Anyways, it was magical.
Yes, it’s really a special place. I guess most people would find the appeal of meeting Richard Branson, which obviously is in itself worth it. But the island itself is really magical, and so is Mosquito Island. We got to go there for a day. There is something special, and even what it is, you know, when you think about it, one man’s dream is to buy a desert island and to turn it into such a beautiful place, which is his own home, a hotel, a mastermind place, a connection place. There is something really inspiring about this place. Not to mention all the world leaders who spent some time there with him and did some really life-changing work, so yeah, you should go. We should go to Necker together next year.
Okay. Yes, he does it every year. Awesome. So tell us a bit more about how you went from being a corporate lawyer to all the woo-woo stuff that you do now.
Yeah, so I think it’s important to mention that my background is not at all based on what I gonna talk about today, which is energy work. Originally I was a business lawyer here in Geneva, Switzerland. I had a family of people who were not at all interested in the subject. In my mom’s family, everybody was a Western doctor. So if you didn’t have a Western medicine diploma, you were, by definition, some kind of charlatan. And so everybody was close to the ID, but ever since I was a kid, I had some sort of a feeling, something that was very blurry, this sort of knowing that there is something more than meets the eye. And eventually when I was a bit older, around 15, 20 years old, one of my friends’ dad was doing some practice that in French we call it we call it cutting fire.
And what it means is that when you burn yourself, you can do some energy work, which does not involve your physical body. And that practice will help you heal. So if it’s not too severe and you do it right away, it can literally make the burn under your eyes go away. You see that your finger is red, that it’s swelling, that the pain is starting to intensify.
We are not just made of a physical body; we are made of something more, and that something more is not made of physical matter.
And suddenly, out of nowhere, there is this practice done without any cream, massage or anything. And you see that the swelling, the redness and the pain go away. And frankly, at that point, there are only two directions from here. Either this is too much, and your brain is going to create some kind of denial curtain where you invent a story, you know, maybe I didn’t burn myself that much, or it was nothing. Or it’s not too much.
And the brain becomes curious. The brain says, “What just happened there?” And for me, that was my entry gate into all that world. I wanted to know what that was. So I started to learn about that with my friend’s dad. And then he directed me to one of his best friends, who was practicing as an acupuncturist and Chinese medicine practitioner. Still, he was also doing a lot of what I now call energy work, which is based on perception.
So it’s not just the theoretical knowledge, you know, acupuncture: you can know that there is an acupuncture point at this place, and you put a needle. But everything that I do today is based on a different idea, which is that we are not just made of a physical body; we are made of something more, and that something more is not made of physical matter. And guess what? Because we are made of that stuff.
We also have inside the little robot everything we need to perceive that stuff, those energetic bodies or subtle bodies, as we call them sometimes. And so, that second person, since he was active in this field and could see that I had some form of a calling for it, said, “I can teach you that too.” And one thing led to another. From contact to contact, I learned with people from different backgrounds.
And eventually I created my own toolbox. And that’s why I like to call it energy work or energy healing, because it’s not a special family of treatment; it’s not a rigid set of rules or anything; it’s more of a general principle, and you realize that throughout the world, throughout all the times in history, humans have perceived these things. They have taught about it in different ways, colored by the culture and the time.
Money is just one more form of energy. Money is just the material object we use to transfer energy between one another. Share on XBut eventually, if you can read between the lines, you see that it’s only one thing: what a human being is. And so I started working that way, perceiving more and more. And through that perception, you realize that it’s giving you information, right? It’s the same as staying in the realm of the physical and seeing a traditional doctor.
If you arrive at their office and your arm is cut open and it’s bleeding, well, his eyes are going to give him information, telling him, I see that there’s a cut here and there’s blood dripping off your arm. And maybe if I touch it, my touch gives me another piece of information. You’re screaming; that’s another piece of information. And all of that together makes him think, Well, I believe that this person has a problem with their arm. And probably the problem is a cut. So the energy work is the same, but with your energetic bodies. And the energetic bodies are going to be both very close to the physical, very much linked with the circulation of energy inside the physical body, but also everything that we would call psychological in day-to-day terms, which is going to be your emotional world and your mental world. And all of this is creating a canvas of who you are, and the energy work becomes understanding that either you are aligned with that thing that is bigger than you, so some will call it God, some will call it the soul or the spirit or the universe. This thing is pulsating a force, a consciousness, inside everything, and if you’re aligned with that, it’s going to flow fluidly.
And things are going to fill and grow and expand. And if you use the little free will you have, you’re going to start creating all kinds of blockages. And the blockage of the energy is going to translate into certain thoughts, certain emotions that recur, certain pain in your body, and eventually it can become an illness in the physical body. And so the woo-woo stuff is to say, “Well, you know what? We can understand the cause of this. It is not just by chance or accident that you have something working in your body or something dysfunctioning.” And it becomes a game of detective to try to perceive what you can about what’s going on in the being that’s in front of you, and from there to propose an explanation and to propose how the way we see things, the beliefs we entertain, are either going to reinforce that specific block or to fluidify it. And that’s pretty much the basis of the practice.
Destiny is what the gods have in store for you. And causality is what you create through your own actions.
And so where did you learn all these different techniques that are part of your energy work toolbox? All from the same person? Did you go take some courses? Did you get mentoring from different experts in various fields?
Yeah. It was really several people that I found on my way. As I said earlier, it was really a contact-by-contact thing. So for example, that acupuncture doctor that I mentioned before, I was working with him, but he tells me, “Well, you know what? Some energy phenomena are not related to the human body, but are related to planet Earth. And I know a girl who’s very active in this, and I can see that it’s interesting to you.”
So he sent me to that girl, and I started learning a few things from her. And as I was learning with her, she told me, Well, I see that you’re very interested in human energy. You should check the books of this guy who lives in Switzerland.” Back then I was living in France, just by the border, and this guy was maybe two hours away from my place. And so I registered for his training, and I did a few, I mean, altogether, I don’t know, maybe I did four or five weeks of training with that guy and his wife, and they were super, super good because they were super left-brained.
It means they had unbelievable perceptions, but they were bringing consciousness back into something that could be explained and understood from a logical perspective. And we go back to what I said earlier, when we were talking just before the recording: we must cultivate both parts of the spectrum.
If you have a good connection with what’s up there, but you are not grounded. You are not dense energetically; you are not solidly incarnated in your day-to-day life and the matter of the body you inhabit. It gives the experience that I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of people like this, where they have transcendental experiences every three days. And it was amazing and so powerful. And you ask them, “What did you bring back from that amazing experience? What consciousness did you gain? What insight did you get that changed who you are for the better? And very often these people, they have nothing to bring back.” They say, “It’s not about understanding, it’s just about being one with the universe.” And I say, “Well, you know, that’s your entry gate, but it’s very incomplete. Because, yes, the end goal might be to become one with the universe, but my personal opinion is that if you truly achieve that. You’re not in your body to tell us about it.”
You know, there’s a famous guy who disappeared from a cave after a few days. These types of miracles exist, but they’re not readily accessible to everyone because they did a five-day meditation retreat. It’s deeper, and we need to be really grounded. So these guys in Switzerland that I learned with, maybe it is the Swiss culture who brought that about, you know.
They were very grounded. The guy used to be an architect, so he was super passionate about planning and things like that. And his gate of entry was through the energy of the land. And so he was making plans for the lands that he was working on, and he realized that the same way you can heal a human, you can also heal a place. So he was working, for example, with farmers, farmers who said, “We don’t understand; our cows do not go to this pasture anymore. And we don’t know what’s going on, and it’s bad for the business, it’s bad for the animal.”
And long story short, it would use exactly what we’re talking about to identify that there was some kind of, let’s say, negatively impacted energy phenomenon. And the same thing. Sometimes you can interact with it and remove it; sometimes you can’t. But if you can, like magic, the next day the cows were back in the pasture because the thing was gone.
And so, and so that’s how, you know, from one angle to the next, you understand that this energy thing is actually everywhere. It is the only thing there is in humans, in animals, in the land, in your thoughts and your emotions, that the materialistic people of this world would say, “It is just in your brain. It is just chemistry and electricity in your brain.” And what we say when we do the type of work I do is. “Yes, the brain exists, and yes, there is chemistry and electricity in that brain. But the cause of that electricity and chemistry is not the brain itself. The source of this is something else. That the brain is just the interface in the matter, in the body that’s expressing something that comes from a higher level.” And so you see how I met different people. Some guy I met was also doing a lot of chiropractic work, but from the energy standpoint.
If trusting the process was easy, everybody would do it. Share on XSo that was super interesting if you’re a left-brain person because you said, “Wow, when you do chiropractic work, you can also physically check the state of a bone or a vertebra, for example. You can physically check whether it is at the right place or whether it is blocked this way or that. And then guess what? You can pick up the energetic vertebra, and you work on it without even touching the patient. And then you check again physically, and the physical bone has moved.”
Is this network chiropractic, or is that something else?
It was just that the guy who taught me about those methods used to be interested in the energy aspect through Chinese medicine. Again, he had created a Chinese medicine school. But as he was working on that, he said, “But wait a minute, if we’re moving energy with our needles, and since we are basically the antenna of that thing, we are conducting that thing, couldn’t we do it with our hands?”
And he was interested. Obviously, when you are open to Chinese medicine and similar practices, you will also be open to chiropractic practitioners because you understand that they take a holistic approach. When you do Chinese medicine, you can say your neck problem is going to be solved by a needle in your ankle. And say that to a Western doctor, most of them will say that’s nonsense because the neck and the ankle are different. But if you have the holistic vision, You’re gonna say, “Well, it’s possible since we are all just one big piece of tissues and muscles and bones all attached, maybe a strain at this part of the body as a chain of reactions all the way to the ankle.”
What we call negative, what we call darkness, the opposite of light and love, is actually a part of love. And it serves the purpose.
So, when you get open to this, well, this guy was open to chiropractic, and he said, “But wait a minute. Since all of this is energy, could I do it with my hands if I get to feel the energy flow?” And obviously the answer was yes, we can. And so, you know, that’s how I got to create that toolbox by putting together things that were coming from very different aspects of it. Because, as I said earlier, this energy thing is absolutely everywhere. It is the only thing there is. There is nothing else. So, same thing.
I worked a lot with a woman that I met in Geneva, which is the most extraordinary person I have ever met. And she is originally from Bolivia, where she has been; she received an initiation with what we would call a shaman, to make it simple to understand. But it has nothing to do with a shaman who would take ayahuasca and give you a trip and things like this. It’s based on feeling the energy of nature, recognizing that those energies are present in us, and through that, the same thing.
Can you start working with the elements? Can you start to recognize that the energy of fire is the same in a burning fire with wood as in a person who has fire inside them? And that person is getting hot, maybe even angry. And this type of work, you know, is completely different. We’re not in China anymore; we’re in South America. But guess what, it’s the same thing. So that’s how I created the toolbox by talking to every person who had discovered their own way into this and sharing our journey and what we had found and eventually enriching each other’s toolbox, let’s put it that way.
Yeah. So one tool I learned from Tina Zion, who was a guest on this podcast. I got some private coaching from her. Let’s take, for example, the scenario where some negative energy occupies the field the cows wouldn’t graze on, and then the cows don’t go there anymore.
You mentioned you could engage with that negative energy and send it elsewhere, or something like that. But what Tina taught me was how to call on divine and sacred beings who usually are angels who then do that work for you. So you’re not actually getting your hands dirty, because it’s pretty dangerous to interact with these negative energies, negative entities and so forth. I mean, they can’t attach themselves to you; they can interfere with you. And yeah, this is a way to do that clearing process without getting personally involved. What are your thoughts on that?
So I agree with most of it. There will be one nuance I’ll bring. Where I agree is that it’s not your little person who does anything. I always say to use a metaphor: imagine you have to put out a fire; the power that my little person has is as many bottles of water as I can hold. If you use the divine, you plug yourself into the ocean. And so if you think that your little person is the source of the power that your little person can do what your ego wants, then yes, I think it’s a big mistake, and it’s very dangerous.
And yes, when you do this, the technical reason the dark energy can attach to you is precisely this. If you approach it with your own ego, your own dark side, your own ‘this is me, I’m powerful, and I want,’ then you obviously come with your dark side. What do you think dark energy is going to do?
It’s gonna attach to you because you are an all-you-can-eat buffet for them. So you should never approach this thing saying I am the source of anything. But at the same time, it is also true that you do play a role in this; you do play your part. If anybody could simply say, “please, divine energy and force and consciousness, solve all the problems of the world.”
The purpose isn't to avoid darkness. It's to choose the light when darkness gives you the opportunity. Share on XWell, we would have done that a long time ago. And this makes us stumble upon something that’s probably the most difficult part for us to accept as humans. It is that what we call negative, what we call darkness, the opposite of light and love, is actually a part of love. And it serves the purpose. And that’s why it is here in our experience. And the direct result of that is that this force.
The divine wants the darkness there. So the reason for this, the way I see it, and what I found in my own journey, is that consciousness comes from contrast. If you want to know what big and tall is, we could walk to Mount Everest and say, “Okay, this is big, this is tall.” But then we could put Everest next to the sun, and suddenly Everest would be very tiny.
And so the question becomes: was it big or was that small? And the answer is it was neither one nor the other. It was only something in contrast with something else. And this is the contrast that is giving the meaning. So if this becomes clear, then you say, “Okay, so contrast is the tool for meaning and purpose of anything.” And if you are light and love and you want to experience yourself, which would be intelligently the most loving thing you could do, right? Your love itself, the most loving thing you could do, is experience that love.
Well, what you’re gonna do is you’re gonna you’re gonna call forth the opposite. You’re going to call some darkness because understanding what a flame is in the sun is a bit more difficult than understanding what a flame is in a dark room. Suddenly, what the flame is and what light is becomes obvious.
And the value of it becomes self-explanatory. And the ‘aha’ moment is right there in that contrast. So, what that means is that the way I see it, this, the material world that we’re in, it is just a theater. It is just a place where we come to experiment ourselves so that we have both light and darkness available, so that they give meaning to each other, and so that we have a choice.
Because if you’re going to choose, you know, let’s take something less abstract. Let’s not use ‘love’ or ‘light’. You want to choose kindness, you want to choose compassion, you want to choose forgiving. What’s the virtue and the value in that if you choose all those things in a world where everybody is pure kindness, where everybody is nice to you and wishes you well and is here to help you?
Now compare that to finding the strength in your heart to be kind to someone who is here to hurt you. Not in a way where you let people take advantage and you become someone who is abused. Not in that way. In a way where you have both the strength to stand for yourself, to say no, to oppose resistance, but you do it with a light heart. A heart that says, I’m not doing this because I hate you. I’m not doing this because you’re my enemy.
I’m doing this because I understand that, in that theater game we’re playing, you took in that moment a bit more darkness so you could give me a context where I could choose the light instead. Suddenly, when you see things like this, you realize that the prayer to say “something is painful, please God, take it away,” is actually a work of your ego, a work of the child in you. Who wants an outside force to make it disappear.
But like every parent, we use this analogy sometimes that God is like a parent to us, a loving father or a mother, as some say. I don’t think it’s completely correct, but it is correct in the sense that do you know any parent who would wish for their child to never grow up, to stay in a childish state forever? Every parent will say, “What I wish for you is to have the maximum experience of every age. And that takes you on a journey where you’re going to grow, and your potential is going to express itself.”
And through this, you will realize who you really are, and you will find the joy of offering the world what you have to give. And if you stay a three-year-old forever, you will never know that. Well, the equivalent of that, in terms of a soul’s journey, is you’re going to encounter some darkness on your way, and darkness. That darkness is going to teach you something. And sometimes it’s gonna be super hard. And some of it we can help you with or make go away, but some of it we’re going to leave right there because that’s your initiation. And this is why: if you just pray to the divine in a way that completely removes you from what’s happening, there is a risk, because it’s not you who will make the cleansing.
You have to let go of the attachment. And this is easier if you realize that you are never the source of it in the first place.
It is indeed the divine, which is light embodied through you. But in that moment, the little you and the big you become just one being. In every moment where true unconditional love can transpire through your actions and your consciousness, it’s a moment of junction between the little you and the big you. And at that moment, it’s not your three or four bottles of water. In that moment, yes, you’ve had a glimpse of what it’s like to touch the ocean.
But you’re still not. And that’s the purpose. You are still in this world, able to feel the difference, able to do your part in it, just as you also realize that your part is a tiny part and that ninety-nine percent of the world is done from above.
Gotcha. So how do you take these insights and this awareness and apply them in everyday life, in a very practical way- let’s say, making money? Like you have all these tools for spiritual energy work, and yet most light workers don’t have enough income to really live comfortably. And you know, you had a very probably high-paying job as a corporate lawyer. So how do you bring this energy into the world in a practical way, make enough money to live comfortably, and join high-end masterminds like Maverick?
So I think my answer will take two directions. I think the first one is more important because it is the big caveat for both the practitioner and the patients who would go see them. You remember a few minutes ago when we said that if you bring your own darkness, your own ego into this, do not be surprised when the dark side of things comes to you and resonates with you.
If you do energy work or spiritual work of any kind and you want to help others, and you want to do that in the name of their soul or the divine or God, not in your name, which means we’re not here to do and accomplish what my little ego would want. My little ego wants me to heal everybody so that everybody is happy, pain is gone, and they think I’m awesome. That’s what the little ego wants. The little ego of the person on the other side says, “Well, it’s been super painful. So, yes, please take it off.” We’re not here to do that work. We’re here to say, I understand that this is part of a larger process, a larger journey. And I can understand part of it, but I will never understand it all because it is beyond what a human mind can grasp. With humility, I’m here to serve and ask, “What can I do for you today?” And this involves zero of what I want.
It is entirely neutral. You have to be neutral to be able to let your own ego dissipate temporarily so that something bigger can be channeled through you. Therefore, is everything that I just said compatible with someone who wants to make a living doing energy work and spiritual practice? To a large degree, it’s not compatible because when you start needing this to pay your bills or to have some form of social thing to answer to when people say, “What do you do?” It is almost impossible that your own ego doesn’t get woven into this. Because your own ego will want something out of this, I would say the first piece of advice for day-to-day money is: don’t do it for the money.
You do it. To become the person that you have always been behind the mask of the personality. You do it because you have a calling in your heart that says, “This is the way, this is where we’re going. You do it because your joy and your fulfillment are in the act of giving the best you have to someone else who needed it, who needed that help.” And then, and only if all of this leads to some money coming your way, then yeah, by all means receive it, you know.
Money is a teacher, and a powerful one, because it can create powerful emotions in everyone, until it doesn't. Share on XThat’s how the heart chakra works with giving and receiving. So everything your heart wants to give, yeah, absolutely. Everything life brings your way, yes. I have some love and self-love to say, “I can receive everything.” But what is not in the heart chakra is taking. So the basic idea is that you’re going to do something transactional.
It’s perfectly fine and ethically acceptable in the material world. We have bills to pay. We cannot simply do things for free every day. So it’s perfectly okay like this. But if you think you can do the soul’s job in a transactional way, it means you’re expecting something. And the second you’re expecting something, you’re out of neutrality.
So that would be the first part of my answer: if we’re literally talking about how to use that practice, don’t use it for the money. Let money be a side aspect of it if it comes to you, but don’t do it for the money. Then, in a broader response to your question, this practice becomes a way for you to change how you see things, everything. And therefore, for money, it’s gonna start with something like “Do I entertain somewhere in my little brain that money is bad, that being rich is bad, that rich people are bad people?” Because if you entertain that idea, which is absolutely not unconditional love, it is obviously going to attract the dark side of it. And the dark side of it is going to be either poverty or constant struggle, or making money in a way that will make all your dark side come out. Money is just one more form of energy. Money is just the material object we use to transfer energy between one another. So if you think this energy is neutral and just going to reflect who you are.
Then you realize something very powerful. I see a lot of people who harbor some kind of jealousy toward money and rich people, because they say they are here to help. They are here to give and to help. I look at them, I say, “I’m super rich. I help a million more people than you. Simply through this, because I use my money to help people.” So, obviously, when I say this, I want to challenge them a little bit. I want to create a shock to wake them up, to say, “Money is nothing.”
Put a million dollars in bills in front of you; you will have a stack of paper watching you back. Money wants nothing. Money is nothing. It is what you make it.” So when I make money, I sometimes decide to buy something for myself. And that’s perfectly fine. And sometimes I want to buy it for someone I love. And if I do it to buy their love, here comes the darkness. But if I do it because my joy is to offer something out of giving, then it’s perfectly fine. And sometimes I use it to help someone I don’t know, and my heart is moved, and it says, ‘ You can do something about it. ‘
And you know what? To tie it back to my first answer, the very reason why I can do energy healing for free. The very reason why I can do it with total neutrality, zero personal incentive. The reason why, for fifteen years, I’ve said to people, “If you want my help, I will give it, and I ask nothing in return,” is precisely because I’ve made money on the side and can do this. So this is how it feeds itself, you know.
Yeah. Well, presumably what you do to make money also comes from the source, the all that is, and that is somehow, you know, incorporating spiritual concepts to facilitate you getting the money, receiving the money, right? So when you’re in a high-vibration state and more aware and conscious, you’re in a more abundant receiving state. So how do you incorporate your spiritual principles into your day job or the way you earn your income to maximize your money flow?
If that’s okay with you, before I answer, I’d like to bounce back on what you just said. I don’t believe that being in a higher vibration necessarily means receiving more good or pleasant things. I know a lot of people who are doing their best and having a beautiful vibration, and they’re not necessarily making tons of money. We also all know a lot of people who are horrible human beings, and they are making a lot of money.
So I think it has more to do with this experience. And that experience will teach you something. Money is a teacher, and a powerful one, because it can create powerful emotions in everyone, until it doesn’t. But let’s say that there is a phase for everybody where, until it doesn’t, money is a powerful emotion creator for everybody. So you’re going to have that money coming in.
And I see some people thinking, you know, you maybe know that quote from Jim Carrey, the actor, where he said, “I wish everybody were rich and famous so that they would understand that it’s not the solution to anything.” And there was also that quote that I liked from Will Smith. He said, “Sometimes people think about rock bottom, but I like to talk about cliff top” because he said that’s what happened to him.
You’re running after something. And he reached the point where he said, “I’ve gotten all the money I could, all the fame I could, I’m popular, I have a family and everything.” And he was still running after something because none of that filled the void inside. And so if you take these people, they were certainly not Jesus Christ or Buddha or whoever you want when they became famous actors, right? And yet they received much abundance.
My personal understanding of this is, well, it’s not because they deserved it; it’s because that was part of the experiential journey that would lead them to exactly that realization: that it solves nothing. So, the first thing I wanted to say. “Then how do you bring it?” Well, I make my money by doing some finance and real estate. After I stopped working as a lawyer, I had a bit of money aside; some of it came from my law practice, but most came from my parents. And that gave me a bit of a cushion to stop for a while and do something else if I wanted to. And at that moment, I decided to go back to my hometown with the person who was my fiancé back then and to buy a house. But the work on the house went terribly wrong.
The architect did a very poor job. It was supposed to last a year, a year and a half. It lasted three and a half years. And the budget ended up being three times the original budget. So you can imagine that it was some kind of a problem. And so for the first time in my life, I had in that moment the necessity to put my nose into my finances and to figure out how I was going to pay for all of this.
And in that moment, I realized that it was possible to have good results. And that’s how I started. And I had zero background in finance, but I decided to do what I always do. I said, “Some guys know what they’re doing, so I’m going to learn from them.” And so my job was to find someone who was reliable and good. And obviously, you don’t succeed, so you find a lot of bad stuff on your way. But your job is to have the discernment to keep what you can keep. When you think about it, it’s the same thing with energy work, right? It’s not an official thing.
And people don’t have an official state degree as energy practitioners. So the only thing you have is your discernment to say, “Is that a good person? Is this making sense? Do I see some practicality or is it just ideas and bullsh*t?” And so I did the same thing with the money. And so I learned from, I don’t know.
Altogether, I think I subscribed to probably 40 different paying newsletters and research services. And I read everything. I read the educational content and the day-to-day issues throughout the year. And eventually, I developed my own way of doing things. And therefore, it led me to build financial and real estate assets, and that’s how I make a living. So, how do you incorporate your spiritual views into this? Well, the first thing is, you realize that your part in it is real, but it is not all there is.
It's perfectly okay to want money. Just don't become attached to it. Share on XAnd I had to learn the hard way about humility because when you are younger. And you are used to giving your best in everything you do, have some intellectual abilities and usually succeed. When you have one more success, it’s easy to think, well, I was good, you know, I was talented, I did things correctly. And then there was a phase in my life when it wasn’t working out. If somehow things had changed, somehow things were not working anymore, and it took me a while.
To be beaten down enough to have the humility to realize I did my part, but my part is not all there is. And there is a spiritual teaching around that that is very, very useful, I believe, that I learned when I did the Viking trip, the Viking initiation in Norway. We had many classes on Viking mythology. And they have this concept that I think is essential. They say there is destiny and causality.
And basically, I translate that by doing my part in God’s plan. So, destiny is what the gods have in store for you. And causality is what you create through your own actions. If you sit under a tree and you wait, you’re probably not gonna wake up one day with money in your bank account. You have to do something. But you realize that the part you do is at most 49%.
And if life wants something for you, you can give your best, you can work 60 hours a week, you can be dedicated, you can have the best of intent. If life says, no, this is not working out, it will not. And it will be for crazy reasons sometimes. I’ve had problems with a bad internet connection in a place where it shouldn’t have happened. I’ve had problems linked to a bank that issued an urgent letter, and they made a mistake with the date: instead of 2020, they dated it 2010.
So sometimes it’s ridiculously stupid. And the other side of this is true as well. If life wants you to have a certain experience, you’re going to get it. And that’s why you can still succeed even if you’re not fully ready. If, in retrospect, you say, “I made a few mistakes.” So the spiritual implementation of all this is I approach money as a neutral thing. Money is just one more form of energy. It is perfectly okay to say, “I would like to have it,” but you have to let go of the attachment. And this is easier if you realize that you are never the source of it in the first place. Your 60 hours a week and your best intent is 49% of the equation max. So if this becomes obvious to you, it’s easier to let go.
You start to somehow become the steward of a wealth that was never yours, and that you have the responsibility to take care of.
It’s easier to start to say, “okay, it never belonged to me in the first place.” And if it never belonged to me in the first place, then naturally you’re going to use it according to that inner voice that you know deep in your heart to be true, to be bigger than the little want and need of your ego. And so you start to somehow become the steward.
Of a wealth that was never yours, and that you have the responsibility to take care of. I like this word responsibility because it does not take care of itself. Like I said, “money is the pile of paper or a number on your screen. It will not take care of itself. You have to make decisions; you have to be the steward of it.”
Yeah, I like that word.
So that’s how you are; that’s how you bring it into your day-to-day life.
And I could add a little factual thing: I realize nobody sees it that way, so maybe it’s interesting. I don’t know the English word. Is egregore a word in English to describe a collective energy? Is that a word, egregore? Or is it not?
I don’t know if that’s a common word. I might have heard it once. I think you’ll need to describe it to our listener.
So, basically, energy comes in all shapes and sizes. So if you and I are talking today, the simple thing we’re talking about is that there is now a common energy in between you and me that is not completely you, not completely me.
And there is also a collective energy from all the people in your audience who are somehow attached to what we’re creating here. And there’s also a collective energy among people everywhere who listen to podcasts and share something in common. And it’s much thinner, right? It’s much thinner, but you still see that the tie is more intense than with someone who has never heard of a podcast.
And that tie will increase the likelihood that that person will eventually discover your work. So you put that all the way to the collective energy of the entire planet and the entire human species, and you can take that away to the entire collective energy of everything that is. And that is just another word to say God or the divine, you know. So if you’re aware of that, you realize that these are collective energies. You can feel them.
And easily, if you want to make that little practice for yourself, you take a meditation moment, and you think deeply, you connect deeply with the French people, or the Italian people, or the Japanese people. And you’re going to immediately see that beyond your intellectual knowledge of the common things we know about everyone as a people, you’re going to feel a difference.
The stock market is a collective energy. And it is probably the only one on the planet that is measured and charted every day with incredible precision.
You’re going to feel that it’s not the same. Well, this is you proving to yourself that you have everything you need to perceive a collective energy. And you realize that the stock market is a collective energy. And it is probably the only one on the planet that is measured and charted every day with incredible precision.
Every second, you’ve got a price with you, know, in decimals. And so when I first realized that, I said, “Well, that’s interesting,” because you realize that the mood of planet Earth and of the human species is somehow reflected in what happens in the stock price for something that is traded worldwide, and the interaction is interesting.
How what’s happening in human life is going to change the prices, but also how the prices can tell you something about what’s happening in the human life of everyone. And for example, there is a saying in trading: “Well, give me the chart, and I’ll give you the news.” Which means sometimes the chart is saying something, and you expect a drop, let’s say. And boom, some news comes out, and prices drop, and people say, “Well, that news made the stock market drop.” Well, maybe not. Maybe that news came to pass precisely because the collective energy of everyone had reached a local peak and needed to rest. Because everything in the universe is like this: it’s cycles, it’s a yin and yang. What this means is: going one way; this is the middle; this is the mean; this is the average.
You go too far from the average, you realize it’s an excess, you come back. You go too far the other way, you realize it’s an excess, you come back. And this is why everything in the universe is a cycle. So, if you take the current situation, for example, you zoom out, watch an SPX or Nasdaq chart on the monthly scale, and realize that since 2009 we’ve been tracing an exponential.
And the curve has now reached a point where it’s almost vertical. And you reach price action that, not too long ago, would have been considered completely crazy, completely extreme, where a trillion-dollar megacap can move 10% on the news. Well, how much of that can you relate to the state of society?
The societies of the world, do they seem quiet to you? Is the world a very peaceful place where nobody is reaching extremes? I think it’s the exact opposite, right? That the world has come to a place where everybody is in extreme mode, extreme reactivity. And when you are in extreme, what do you do? Well, I don’t know. Maybe you don’t like a tweet, and you send a missile that blows up an entire building, right?
Or maybe as you said, you’re in Tel Aviv. You know, what happens in your region is two people who can’t even speak anymore. And that creates a state where, even when they say, “let’s have a ceasefire just to talk for a minute,” they can’t seem to respect it because they are so agitated. And this- it is, you would think it has nothing to do with the stock exchange, but yes, it has something to do because it is a reflection of the mood of the world. So that’s another way, which is completely practical, to integrate a spiritual understanding and perception into day-to-day life, for example, making money.
Yeah. Awesome. I know we’re close to running out of time here. Maybe we could do a few questions in lightning round mode where you just quickly answer them, thirty seconds each or so. I wanna get to a few additional topics quickly. So do you remember any past lives?
Parts of it, I think it is. I’m not sure, because the information you get can come in the form of images, sentences, feelings, and some of those involve being someone else who’s not Adrien. But am I sure it’s a past or future life? Or could it just be information I perceived that way? I have my doubts.
False information is your own creation. You’re imagining something instead of being silently neutral and perceiving something that’s coming from the outside.
Okay. And so how do you discern what is true information and what is maybe, I don’t know, a mirage or false information, something you wanna believe or that somebody wants you to believe? How do you discern?
False information is your own creation. You’re imagining something instead of being silently neutral and perceiving something that’s coming from the outside. So the way you do it with yourself is the same way I tell patients to do it: this is just a proposition. Bring that proposition to your consciousness. Have it in your mental library and see if it makes sense. See if it fits. That’s why I said before, I don’t need to be sure.
Because it doesn’t matter if it’s a past life or if it’s just information that I perceived, right? So if I said to someone or to myself, let’s say, information comes about the relationship with your parents- let’s take something basic. And it seems there’s pain there, and something is blocking the energy. Well, if the person tells me, “Well, you know what? I haven’t spoken to my dad for two years.”
I say, “Yeah, it has a very high probability of being true.” So you keep it as something that’s not imposed on you. It’s just a proposal. And if it makes sense in your day-to-day life, and if you can, you know, either on the spot or in the coming days or week, you can see that it’s crazy relevant and that it actually brings a new awareness of things, it has a high probability of not being a mirage and of being a true perception.
Gotcha. All right, cool. And then last question: have you ever tried plant medicine or any kind of psychedelic or something that would be kind of perception altering?
I tried the mushroom for the Psilocybin. It was a great experience, but I think it’s excessively important to remind ourselves of what we said before. You have to be neutral; you have to come to the experience with a clean slate. I want this.
If you want this, it means your ego is in control. It means your dark side is in control. It means whatever perceptions are going to be either unpleasant or misleading because the ego is driving the car. So you have to come. I would recommend coming to a point where life has been a bit difficult, and you’ve let go. Whatever thing you were maybe hoping at some point to get clarity on or insight or perception.
If you’re going to do mushrooms or anything else, do it from a state where you say, “I have let go and I don’t need that information anymore. I’m open to receiving something, but if I don’t, it won’t change anything. I really come with zero expectations.” That way you maximize the possibility of receiving something that’s not a mirage.
Nice. Well, this is all really profound stuff. Thank you for sharing. And if our listener wanted to work with you on some energy work, how would they get in touch with you, and where would they learn more?
Yeah, so like I told you before, I’m super happy to offer a session with anybody who wants to work with me. I’ll do it for free. The only limit will be my schedule because I’m quite busy, and as I said, I do it on the side. It’s not my main activity. I don’t use a website or anything. My whole life has been word of mouth, except that in your case, the word of mouth is an audience of thousands. So I’ve never done it before.
Is there a way you can put my email address on the page where you will post this so people can write to me directly if they want to? So we’ll do this. If anybody listens to this and they want to reach out, either for a session or a question or just to interact, they send me an email and in the label the email following Stephan’s podcast or something like this, something where I know it’s not spam and I can relate. And we’ll take it from there.
Awesome. All right. And thank you for your generosity. Awesome. So this was fabulous. Thank you for sharing, and I just wanna ask for one last wisdom nugget for our listeners to walk away with something you didn’t already share. What would it be?
Out of the blue, something like this would be useful for everyone. I would say this. Remember that if trusting the process was easy, everybody would do it. That this is for everyone who probably is listening to this now and saying, fuck it. I’ve been trying for so long, and it’s so hard. And I see stuff in the world that, you know, gets this idea. Unconditional love means there is no condition. A love that expands to everything. So picture the most atrocious, horrible, inhumane thing you can think of. And imagine a consciousness that looks at that and says, “I still love. There is not an ounce of hatred in me when I look at this atrocity.” This is the gap between us and the divine. This is how far we are from it.
So obviously, our journey to it is going to be incredibly long and incredibly difficult. And the more you work, the more dedicated you are, the more they’re going to give you an Olympic Games level of training. And there will be a moment where you will lose your faith. In the Bible, there is something that I believe is close to that. When all the disciples go to Jesus and tell him, “Of course, we will abide by your side all along.” And Jesus says, “No, you will betray me three times”. The way I see it is this: the young Padawan has a very genuine faith. Yes, I will be there; I will continue to believe in you. And the master says, “If you knew what’s coming your way, you wouldn’t be so sure.” And so this is the nugget.
If trusting the process and having real faith was easy, everybody would do it. So don’t be in despair if you lose it. It’s part of the process to lose it, to curse the divine, only to come back to it later when you’ve grown.
Yeah, so get back on the horse.
Get back on the horse again and again.
Yeah. Well, thank you, Adrien, and thank you, listener. Go out there, make the world a better place. We’ll catch you in the next episode. I’m your host, Stephan Spencer, signing off.
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